Trading card games' decline?

[gLItcHyGeAR]

I think many would agree that the physical trading card game market in America is seeing a slow decline. Not universally, the player base will always exist, but I do think it's not what it used to be. The largest games are seeing rapidly declining player base, and smaller card games universally have trouble gaining more players; I know plenty people who, after a while, just stopped playing card games. If we compare trading card sales now to what they were many years ago, it's a radical difference. I wanted to start a thread discussing why the decline is happening and what we can do to fix it.

A couple of my own thoughts:

- Let's start with a point I've never seen anyone mention in these conversations. This is deeply tied to the decline of Western comics, or rather the decline in relevancy of comic shops specifically. Now hear me out - game stores and comics stores are often basically the same thing, and I do mean very often your LCG will itself be a comic shop. I know there are plenty LCGs who are gaming-exclusive stores, but I also know there are many more who are not, and some areas don't even have proper LCGs to speak of. Down here we have Tate's Comic Shop, and two doors down we have "Tate's Comic Shop - Gaming Extension" (official name); the gaming part is rather literally an "extension" of the comics side of the store, and I've been to comic shops where the card games like Netrunner and even MTG were only allowed to cohabit a single corner of a frankly otherwise large building. I do think the fact that tabletop gaming is often treated as secondary to the comics industry by some kinds of brick-and-mortar retailers is detrimental to the long-term viability of some types of tabletops, namely card games.
- The industry leaders' mistakes reflect negatively on the smaller card games, for example MTG has been printing on bad stock and has slowly been letting its fabled "perfect" game balance falter. It doesn't matter of Force of Will or Legend of the Five Rings doesn't partake in these practices. Most people's first experience with the act of playing physical card games is either through MTG or YGO, and the way they are right now means that most people's first experience will be a bad one. This experience will encourage some to leave the genre altogether before they've explored their myriad of alternatives. I think a well-managed game becoming more popular and commonplace would reflect positively on the entire industry.
- The simple lack of a localized player base is another primary issue. I've wanted to play Force of Will for so long, yet I only know one other guy who plays it down here. And believe me I've looked. If you want to play these smaller card games you usually have to start the player base in your area yourself, which requires a lot of initial investment most people don't really have. I genuinely don't know how one would fix that issue.
- The typical business model, of opening packs, has actually caused people to not want to buy into these games, due to the stigma of randomized chance and more recently loot boxes. Meanwhile, with an LCG format, you very often feel pressured in another way - new players often incorrectly thinking you need to buy most if not all the cards to get into the game at all. I feel like both business models are daunting for someone unfamiliar with card games (especially for someone who doesn't understand the secondary market, or even know it exists). A new business model, that's easily accessible for new players, may be needed, though I simply can't say what that would be.
- Most importantly... I can think of no new game which hits the same universal appeal as something like MTG or YGO, barring Hearthstone. I know this will be the point people most take issue with, but it's true - I do prefer a game that appeals to more niche interests, but no new game appeals to as many types of people at once as the most popular games did. Even ignoring all the other issues, I think what the physical gaming market needs more than anything else is a new card game that is designed with universal appeal in mind.

Sorry it was so long, feel free to add to it or disagree with it to your heart's content.

[Mario]

Interesting perspective. Just to add a different one – from someone from rural Germany:

• TCGs never really "kicked off" here that massively. MtG was and still is the most prominent one I'd assume, possibly followed by YGO and Pokemon, simply just because of the anime series targeting kids.
• However, I think TCGs never really had that "loot box stigma" here and possibly never will get it. Many compare them more to collectible sticker cards very common here, even before MtG's success. Think of them like the US' typical baseball cards, just thinner paper and with self-adhesive backs to glue them into a small booklet. There are also many thinking that the whole loot box thing doesn't apply to these games, because people aren't screwed with worthless duplicates and unplayable cards, because they can trade them in some way or another.
• Lack of localized player base was also what kept me from ever really getting into (physical) MtG. I first discovered Magic some time around 96 or 97 when a classmate (think he was the son of an US Marine stationed here) brought his cards with him. We've had fun, the cards were sold in stores, but basically nobody else knew anyone else playing or interested to play. The partially steep price curve didn't make it more attractive to our allowance budget either – neither did the requirement of having someone to play with (compared to stuff like game consoles). This also reminds me that back then the cards felt a lot less complex, less stuff to read, and less special cases or plays to keep track of (like Planeswalkers) – or maybe we just didn't know or care.
• As for the decline of western comics: Hard to judge. I don't remember seeing or being to any actual (physical) comic shop here, ever. If you want to get comics, you'd get a decent selection at book stores or supermarkets selling newspapers, magazines, etc. Trading cards like Magic could be found in very few toy stores or – if you were lucky – one or the other shop specialized on Games Workshop titles. Don't think I've ever seen an actual offer or entry point for a secondary market back then – and we didn't have stuff like eBay or trading forums of course (rare exceptions with expensive internet etc. obviously).

[Sohzu]

I love TCG I still collect the older sets of Pokemon when I see them at a flea market or yard sale but playing the games to me has died. I can't stand our locally owned card shops. Dark dank shops with arrogant players in them.. Its the main reason I quit, they sucked the fun out of it with how they act around here. I would very much love to get into a fresh TCG with great collect-ability the way Pokemon took me back in the day. However it has to have a good community to go with it.. Yu-Gi-Oh was a fun time at first too but for me I lost interest when the game started to get more and more complicated and they added all the little arch types that allow you to bring damn near the entire deck out in a turn.. Just wasn't fun when things like that became the meta.

I've been thinking about trying the Final Fantasy TCG because of the nostalgia the characters would bring but eh, I don't know anyone that I'd play with.

[tomo]

Why me and my friends stopped playing MtG, pricing.Singles become more and more expensive and with mythics even MORE.Boosters have no value and are actually just loot boxes.
Now Im playing artifact for my ccg fix,I play the free draft mode to practice before trying the "real" mode you buy with tickets.

[gLItcHyGeAR]

I wouldn't even mind investing in expensive singles... if they stayed at that price. Which they never do.

[Blackman]

Over here MtG was obviously big (and arguably still is). We saw Pokemon take off and become very popular, but as a pure CCG (or maybe just CC as very few people actually played it). Nothing really happened to its popularity until the online card games started to surface. Now there is a definite decline and I feel it's strongly connected to that online presence. With MtG Arena I think we'll see the deathblow, at least for LCG's - which could also mean Living Card Games - but that's another concept that is on its way to die.

Your comparison between comic book stores and gaming stores doesn't apply here, and I believe in Europe in general. The audience that buys comics actually differs from the gaming audience as comics are usually more adult-oriented. There is overlap, of course, especially with Amerian comics.

The business model of opening packs has long been abandoned by players anyway. People come to draft (or sealed for prerelease) and for most here that will be the only way to get cards other than trading. You're technically opening boosters but they aren't "randomly" divided as in general they do no rarepicking, though that is changing.

What "saves" local gaming stores here is that they still serve as locations where people play boardgames. They have gamer-oriented food at affordable prices and some special beers on the menu, which are actual reasons people go there. But most things they sell apart from that is because people want to support them and care about them. That is the only reason. If they go out of business they can play somewhere else and they still buy their stuff online. They care because they are small communities they've grown to love. You'll come to know people there even if you don't play the same games.

[gLItcHyGeAR]

Interesting that you say opening packs has been largely abandoned by players. MTG, YGO and Pokemon all still sell packs and boxes of packs, and I saw someone else mention how starter decks are themselves a sort of "band-aid" for many of trading card games' inherent issues. If it's true that players prefer another format, as you suggest here, I wonder why the actual distributors haven't picked up on that?

[Blackman]

I should clarify that I meant opening packs "just like that" instead of making a game out of it (aka. draft/sealed/...). People don't go to stores anymore just to buy single boosters (not as much as they used to), though some will still harvest boosterboxes.

And Wizards did pick up on it, releasing a draft-only set and more draft-friendly sets in general.

[ryvrdrgn14]

A lot of people I know got turned off by the endless rotation of cards cycling in and out from the various formats. Selling precon decks is a bandaid fix at most since part of the charm of TCG is building your own decks and playing what is fun. The barrier to entry on legacy formats is too high and there is that looming fact that standard cards will be cycled out eventually. People that get into TCGs will find that they dislike this endless cycle of spending if the company is not at the top of its game with making the players/customers happy.

TCGs might benefit from having a permanently legal base set while rotating out supplementary sets if they want to switch things around. Another thing they can try is to sell a base standard legal playset and do the RNG-Lootbox-Boosterpack supplementary products around it. Otherwise it will be eb and flow as people churn/burn out and new/returning players come back.

Let's not forget that there might be other things outside of just producing the game that a company does to make customers unhappy. Over/under production, poor card quality, PR blunders and so on. There are many factors at work here and it's not just raw interest in card games that determines the outcome.

[gLItcHyGeAR]

I could only ever play the non-rotating "modern" formats of any game, especially MTG's modern and EDH formats. Most players can't stand rotating format, and worse is rotation by power creep (a la Yu-Gi-Oh). A better way to sell new cards, in my mind, is through the variety and utility of new cards, not their raw power or the fact that they're the only cards with prize support behind them.

[Zaiven]

Well, where I'm from it's MtG or nothing when it comes to any kind of card games. TCG, CCG, LCG dosen't matter. The game stores also foster this mentality quite heavily. I remember suggesting playing L5R and granted I didn't know the people very well, the five people at the MtG table practically looked at me in disgust. I felt like I was in one of those bad comedies from the late 90'ies to early 2000's. New games will maybe be played for a month or so and then it's back to MtG, you usually got a few straggelers but they will either quit MtG or end up rejoining because you can't really play those kinds of games alone.

That's honestly what I think is killing TCG's, CCG's and LCG's, the fact you only have one option and if you don't like it... Well too bad, because you will find people who either get tired of MtG or just plainly never liked it. I honestly think it's that simple. I certainly reached a point where I pretty much gave up on the idea of playing again.

Also if you like MtG, fine, more power to you and all that, but if it's literally the only option in town. Then it's really more a question of "how do we keep our playerbase" than "what do we do with TCG's"

[gLItcHyGeAR]

I think part of the issue there is how much of a time and money investment it takes to be into a game. People can play several competitive video games at once alongside playing several multiplayer games casually, because it's cheap and not at all time-consuming; in contrast, physical card games are expensive and have mechanics that get rather obtuse, so it's significantly harder to play more than one or two at a time.

[Firebrand]

The barrier to partake in most tcgs is often high, not only due to needed knowledge, but also close-knit groups that often make an lgs their hideout. Card games need a group of people to enjoy/play by design, and require players to quickly adopt to various personalities, which is tough for a newbie.

If one doesn't have a knowledgeable friend to guide em into the nuances of playing tcgs, they're in for an uphill battle. That's why all the tcgs are moving online: easy to learn tutorials, inability to cheat, limited opponent interaction, and direct payment methods, along with steamers promoting to their legions of viewers. This business model feels solid.

Time will tell how many online tcgs last.

[gLItcHyGeAR]

I have had the idea of setting up a way to play physical games digitally, before. We already record competitive matches using cameras, why don't we as a community just find a cheap yet quality-enough camera to livestream a physical tabletop? And assuming you could even get that sort of setup "in vogue" with the community, it would be easy enough to set up a few online resources for games at that point.

Maybe that's a horrible idea. Maybe it won't work. But it's a start? I dunno, we'd have to test several setups, and make some well-defined rules with each other, as a community, if we were to go that route. At least it'd let me play with anyone globally, not needing a playerbase in my area to play a physical game. Using the internet as a tool for connection and community, as it was always meant to be. Again, I really don't know if that would work, but if it would, I'd love to give it a try.

[Firebrand]

Hi. Yeah, that's def possible. You'd need two cameras: one pointed at the table and another pointed at the person - possibly through Skype (?).

You'd also need a discord channel to find players. Worth a try imo.

[gLItcHyGeAR]

I may try it then. It'd take a lot of time to set up though, and first things first, I'd need a cheap yet quality camera I can buy two of.

[ciderPunk1877]

I'm just salty about Netrunner being shut down.

[gLItcHyGeAR]

A lot of us are. LOL

[Nella_Bolt]

You gotta hit Facebook groups. No matter where I've moved I've been able to find people to play for Magic, and if I wanted, Yugioh and Pokemon.
Force of Will is basically not quite EDH from MtG, so I could see why it didn't gain popularity when it's just an anime version of some other concept. I actually would say there's been an increase in players, but not the games you're looking for. There's a Dragonball Z TCG that has been blowing up in the card scenes, Yugioh is still massively popular, and Magic is probably never gonna die. Hearthstone is online so it has the potential to always be around as long as the game stays relevant and earns to adapt and change as the others have.
I think it also has to do with mechanics of card games and what makes them work. Pokemon and Yugioh are 2 halves of Magic, and Magic basically created the entire concept of a turned based fantasy TCG. At this point there isn't much creativity you can go with and Magic keeps going further and greater. They've even gone as far as releasing parody sets that have their own hilariously 4th wall breaking and very meta concepts and rules.
Heck, I can remember being given a binder of mostly foil and rare Duel Masters cards, but the LGS wouldn't even take them from me for free because it was dead even while in printing. The Harry Potter game ceased to exist, And NOBODY even remembers Revelations, the super christian card game that, despite having no religion, I immensely enjoyed playing with the one friend who showed it to me.
Cards games are a tough place to try and get in good.

It's vaguely off topic but have you looked into the deck building board games? They hold the same idea of other TCG's but all of the cards are in a big pile that each players builds a deck out of turn by turn. There's a really good one for DC and there's one by some pro Magic players called Ascension.