Do games need to be fun to be good?

[PixelTheory]

Fun is a word that should be totally removed from the discussion around video games.
Someones frustration may actually be another persons fun.
It's too subjective to hold any real value or merit.

Dark Souls 2 was not fun for me, I enjoyed it because of the challenge but I certainly never found that challenge fun.
Mass Effect 1 was not fun for me, I enjoyed it because of the story...
F.E.A.R. was not fun for me, I enjoyed it because of the tension...

You get the idea.

The reason I bring this up is that I have often seen people get into arguments about a game.
X Player would claim that something was "fun"
Y Player would say that it was not "fun"

What X player was really saying was that the game was "Scary"
While Y player was really saying either "I don't like being scared" OR "I did not find it scary"

Exciting, Scary, Tense, Visceral, Comical, Relaxing, Interesting, Deep, Complex, Psychological, Captivating, Unique, Natural, Realistic, Engrossing and Emotional...
These are just a small selection of words that people substitute for the word fun.

SIDE NOTE!
If you ever see the word "FUN" or words "NOT FUN" in a video game review...
Close it and look elsewhere, it's a bad review!

[Elmo]

Some games either don't start off fun due to slow start and build up to fun when your get more power and control possible example 7 days to die or general survival games.. Mwhahaha.

OR

Like "x4 foundations" it's a case of: make your own fun/adventure in an sandbox universe/world.


So, answering the question do they need to be fun, at some point they do need to be fun, but not necessarily inherently fun.

[UberDerp]

Depends, do you count Dark Souls as fun?

I fucking hate that game but its such a good game.

[ISP]

On some level yes, they do need to be fun.