Are consoles a rip off?

[Oysterhead]

Given the majority of consoles are sold at a loss then by definition they're not a rip-off. You get more options with a PC and you get a chance to keep its hardware up-to-date, but you pay for that privilege. Your $2000 gaming PC, if I sold that to you for $500 hoping to make my money back on the games you then buy would you say "Wow, what a rip-off". Of course not.

However the main advantage to console gaming is that I can read a written review, or watch a YouTube video about a game and learn what it's like to play, what the pros and cons are, if I'm likely to enjoy it and so on. Whereas 90% of any PC review (written or video) is about framerates.

lol, isn't selling at a loss an indication, that it IS a ripoff^^ I mean, they can only do that, because in the end, they will get the money back. This actually sounds like a very good argument to me. The console people know, the consumer in average will have to pay them SO MUCH (pricey games, premium, online), they can initially sell at a loss. This would never ever happen with the masterrace. Maybe I am missing sth, how is this not an indication of ripoffery?
Now I am at a total loss regarding your assertion about reviews. Why do you think that? 90%? In what world? I can tell you, it's not this one. Even if true, you can very easily find someone who does reviews focused on other stuff. BTW I would have said, it's like 5% and at the absolute top! So this is very strange to me. It's your MAIN point aswell, you are confusing the heck out of me right now! xD This sounds to me like you never read a single review and think every PC gamer is jerking his dick to his framerate, just seeking a new high, "let's read my favourite reviewer, Framejunkies, what is this?! 3000 frames in Minecraft?! *sploooch*". Maybe I just randomly read the exact right sites though and out there in the wild world of PC gaming reviews, where 90%, or probably more like 98% to make up for what I usually read, is about the framerate, it's different...

[Aidy]

lol, isn't selling at a loss an indication, that it IS a ripoff^^ I mean, they can only do that, because in the end, they will get the money back. This actually sounds like a very good argument to me. The console people know, the consumer in average will have to pay them SO MUCH (pricey games, premium, online), they can initially sell at a loss. This would never ever happen with the masterrace. Maybe I am missing sth, how is this not an indication of ripoffery?
Now I am at a total loss regarding your assertion about reviews. Why do you think that? 90%? In what world? I can tell you, it's not this one. Even if true, you can very easily find someone who does reviews focused on other stuff. BTW I would have said, it's like 5% and at the absolute top! So this is very strange to me. It's your MAIN point aswell, you are confusing the heck out of me right now! xD This sounds to me like you never read a single review and every PC gamer is jerking his dick to his framerate, just seeking a new high, "let's read my favourite reviewer, Framejunkies, what is this?! 3000 frames in Minecraft?! *sploooch*". Maybe I just randomly read the exact right sites though and out there in the wild world of PC gaming reviews, where 90%, or probably more like 98% to make up for what I usually read, is about the framerate..

1) go troll someone else
2) ????
3) win!

[Oysterhead]

There was a "think" missing before "every PC gamer" - I doubt that changes stuff for you though. So what is wrong and why?
Also I think just labeling someone a troll and not giving arguments or a sound reply at all is pretty weak.

[Tysakasa]

I don't feel that they're a ripoff, just an alternative. There are people who just want to be able to play a game that interests them without having the worry if their hardware is up to par in order to play it at a stable rate nor have to worry about any software issues (Windows putting out a bad update or even a bad driver update from Nvidia and AMD). There are also those who have a bit of a mental block when it comes to technology, where no matter how hard they try, it simply doesn't click, so they'll feel overwhelmed when looking at system requirements in order to play a game and not seeing their specific parts being listed, they'll have to constantly go and ask others "can I play this game?" even though their system very well can, maybe not maxed out, but at least on high with smooth frames. So to them, consoles will feel more comforting because all they have to do is look for games that were developed for it (which if at a store, the boxes kind of give away what system it's for) and buy it without having to do any extra considerations.

There's also social habits that need to be taken into consideration. Consoles offer party play, so if you have friends or family over often, you can game with them without dragging over extra equipment (a game and controller at most). Can't play Diablo 3 with my nephew on PC because he doesn't have his own computer, but we can play it together on console because it offers couch play and I have two controllers for my PS4. Now sure there are some PC games that do offer single system support (if I recall, Dungeon Defenders allows you to have at least a second person playing with you on a single computer, maybe up to four like on console), but not everyone's PC set up is suited to this.

As for online comparisons. Yeah the monthly online fee that they expect in order to play the majority of their games online is pretty balls, especially since most of said games tend to be peer-to-peer instead of using dedicated servers (any more than four people in a match should never be peer-to-peer) and the overall online service is pretty mediocre

Now, if you're going out and getting a console expecting amazing graphics, then yeah, they're a rip off. Sure they can pump out some pretty impressive visuals with the hardware that they have, but they'll always fall short when compared to what a PC can.

[ryvrdrgn14]

I liked my PS1/PS2/Dreamcast and so on. Those were a lot of fun. Now with consoles trying to nickle and dime you for multiplayer and other things, it's just not worth it for me. I don't need a dozen gateways and multiple layers of payment to enjoy a game. I'm also not the type of person to feel like I HAVE to play any specific game. If the company, platform, theme or quality of a game is bad and not to my liking then I can skip it. I understand that people enthralled by nostalgia (and nostalgia ain't bad) still feel compelled to jump through the hoops to play their favorite IPs though. The problem is these corporations are literally leveraging your nostalgia to dish out poor services and products. Your fondness of these IPs is being used against you in a bad way.

And yes, this happens to PC as well, but at least there are less payment gateways to go through and the selection is broader than what consoles offer. I can also just emulate older games that I like and play them in the forms before they were stuffed up the wazoo with microtransactions, subscriptions and ads.

[Wolf]

Full disclosure, I'm a PC Gamer, so you might cry bias.

But I'd ask you to hear me out first.

Personally I would say yes,consoles are a rip-off, and not just for the obvious reasons, that they are essentially on the technical side proprietary PCs.
You have an OS, and games need to be installed, so it's not Plug&Play as it used to be with the first Playstation for example, a friend of mine owned one, and I have a few fond memories of it.

The reason I say it's a rip-off is that you might spend less up front, a Console is cheaper, but in the long run, and I have built several PCs that lasted me between 4-6 years, you pay more, because each game has a higher base price.

Aside from that you have to pay for internet access on top of your ISP bill.

And then comes the biggest gripe for me, designed and enforced obsolescence, namely that a lot of hardware that you get for the consoles will be obsolete at a certain point when the manufacturers decide it is time.
I got a used Logitech G27 Wheel-set (Wheel, Pedals (Gas, Brake, Clutch) and Shifter) for the awesome price of 130 Euros........normally that thing costs you 160-200-ish used and over 200 new.
The reason that guy had to sell, and I could buy a perfectly working G27 that cheap, is because both Logitech and Sony decided not to support it with the PS4.

So he had to buy a new wheel in the 300-400 Euro Range, just because the Manufacturers decided it was time to milk him for cash.

At the same time this wheel which came out in 2010 and it's predecessor the G25 from 2006 have full driver support on every modern Windows from Vista to Windows 10.
And even older Windows XP if you want to run a virtual machine.

Now ask yourself, how would you like having to replace an input device that you saved for, that cost you a lot of money and still has a lot of service life left, because someone decided that you should buy something new?

I could also point out that you don't get modding or rather as free modding as on PC, and that certain genres, especially in the Sim Category are either completely absent or only exist in a very limited way on Consoles, but I think I made my point.

Generally I could say that the games I would want to play, aren't availlable on PC.
I'm also freer in my choice what types of game I want to buy and from whom.

Aidy Ah well the 2K Gaming PC claim.........honestly I have never built one that costs that much and only very few people do so.
Mine has cost me around 1.2-1.4 k so far and only because I chose to put in 2 SSDs (500GB and 1TB) because I have some games that eat up space like crazy and love an SSD.
My Mouse is 9 years old my Keyboard even older, my monitor is of similar age, until it broke my Saitek X52 lasted me 9 years, and back then it had cost me 90 euros.
My Case has seen the second generation of Hardware and the third Graphics Card by now, same goes for my PSU one of the infamous Corsair HX750W and I still have warranty on it.
In fact it's the third generation of Hardware for my PSU.(I might just replace it because it's getting old, running out of warranty and there are newer more effective ones out.....but I don't need to.)
And I know people that run Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar which came out in 2003 are still using them, because Thrustmaster runs a spare parts program.
Stuff lasts and that way even a HOTAS that costs 320 Euros will ammortize rather nicely, if you can use it that long.

Also one other point, aside from gaming, I can watch Blurays, surf, watch the reviews and videos just like you with this PC.
But I can also work with it not just everyday office work, but also digital development of photos, digitalizing the family collection of slides and negatives, and even cutting and rendering videos when I need too.
And I don't need an extra PC, Tablet or anything else for that........which is generally what people don't tend to factor in when they make the price argument for consoles.


P.S. If you wonder why I bought a used wheel, well it was my first one and I wasn't sure if I'd keep on simracing, so I didn't want to spend hundreds of Euros.
Then it was a decision between a new Driving Force GT, a used one and that's when the used G27s popped up........and they were just too good a deal.
I mean either get a wheel with only gas and brake pedals, no clutch, and a sequential shifter as new, or for even less money, get a wheel with gas, brake and clutch pedals, paddle shifter and a manual H-pattern shifter.

[Aidy]

Personally I would say yes,consoles are a rip-off

You might prefer a PC and like to keep your hardware up to date, no-one is claiming that consoles are the equivalent to a PC, but remember you paid 1.5k for the privilege of that, you can get a console for a couple of hundred. The fact that you don't mind spending thousands on a PC doesn't mean consoles are a rip-off, it just means you don't mind spending the extra money for the extra flexibility.

And consoles are a rip-off because you have to install games? lolwut? You have to install games on a PC too Also the internet access on my XBOX costs me nothing extra. And I don't see how the fact that your mate bought the wrong hardware means consoles are a rip-off either.

You preferring something doesn't make the alternative "bad", it just means you have a preference. For a few hundred I get to play the latest games with no hassle on a box that doubles as a Blu-ray player, Netflix player, amazon prime player, YouTube or twitch streamer etc. It's not for everyone, but that doesn't make it a rip-off.

[Zenryu]

Nope, I think specifically the ps4 and switch are not a rip off. I have gotten what I feel is my money's worth. All I have been playing lately are ps4 exclusives as they are what have been catching my eye. I do have a PC that absolutely destroys any of my consoles, yet I generally go toward consoles since they have the games I am interested in, which makes them worth it for me. Also generally get 3rd party games on the ps4 just to keep things on the same platform, despite them having better performance on pc. Mainly been using my PC for VR stuff lately. If those exclusives don't catch someone's eyes, then yes, they are 100% ripoffs, as a PC will usually give a better experience with 3rd party titles other than a select few, especially with the modding abilities.

I do agree that paying for online is a ripoff. I don't see much of a difference with my online experience after psn went subscription based. I actually think psplus was more worth it before it was required to play online and was optional.

[Wolf]

Interesting and well reasoned argument that you raise here, I do have a different opinion........but your aregument is compelling.

[Baron Baldric]

The consoles are PC without a monitor, they were invented because it was very expensive to buy a complete PC for a family and all the families had a TV. Now TVs and monitors are practically the same, not even specific hardware is made to run games, the consoles are AMD generic APUs. For example, PS4 has a processor that performs like an A10 9700 with an RX 560 GPU. With Nintendo, the thing gets uglier, putting only 4 gb of ram in a console when the minimum to play is 6GB (4ram 2vram) is crazy.

The current consoles have lost all the advantages of the traditional ones, games in digital format, permanent connection, mods, backwards compatible ... they have been shitting in gamers for a long time.

The consoles are still good for the children, if you have a child you want to have control of their recreational activities.

[Wolf]

You might prefer a PC and like to keep your hardware up to date, no-one is claiming that consoles are the equivalent to a PC, but remember you paid 1.5k for the privilege of that, you can get a console for a couple of hundred. The fact that you don't mind spending thousands on a PC doesn't mean consoles are a rip-off, it just means you don't mind spending the extra money for the extra flexibility.

Oh there it is is the loaded word........privilege..........am I supposed to have any reaction to it?

Ok answer me a simple question, are you writing this comment from your console?

And consoles are a rip-off because you have to install games? lolwut? You have to install games on a PC too Also the internet access on my XBOX costs me nothing extra. And I don't see how the fact that your mate bought the wrong hardware means consoles are a rip-off either.

I guess you misread something here, I said that consoles do not have the advantage of Plug and Play, like they used to, you know during the
Let me give you the whole quote, instead of that trunctuated version you quoted.
"Personally I would say yes,consoles are a rip-off, and not just for the obvious reasons, that they are essentially on the technical side proprietary PCs.
You have an OS, and games need to be installed, so it's not Plug&Play as it used to be with the first Playstation for example, a friend of mine owned one, and I have a few fond memories of it. "

To make it clear, what I said is that there is no difference between a PC and a console hardware side, they use the same x86 based processors, unlike the PS3 which used a different processor.
The Xbox and PS4 also use operating systems derive from PC operating systems, Xbox's one is Windows based (obviously) and the PS4's system is based on FreeBSD.

The PS used to be, put in the disk, start the game, play.
At a time when windows installation and especially driver installation was rather finicky...that was a big plus and selling point.
Anyone who has ever dealt with Windows 95 and Windows 98, or worse yet DOS, knows what a truly finicky driver installation and setup is. Think today is bad?
Try selecting the right colour palette for the graphics card and setting the right DMA and IRQ for the soundcard. And god forbid one of the devs screwed up the menu an the vlaue shown was not the value put in.......
And don't get me started on the stability of Windows 95 and 98 pre-SE (Second Edition, yub it was so bad it needed a second edition)..........or Windows ME, officially called the Millenium Edition, I just call it the Manure Edition.
Anyone in the mood for this classic?
https://xkcd.com/323/

Now after that little excursion into the dark and seedy world of OS's in the nineties.........let's get back on topic. the hardware question.
To be honest I don't quite know how that not buying the wrong hardware is supposed to work, several years before the new console or the new wheel come out.
You've got to explain that one to me.

To be honest, if my friend

You preferring something doesn't make the alternative "bad", it just means you have a preference. For a few hundred I get to play the latest games with no hassle on a box that doubles as a Blu-ray player, Netflix player, amazon prime player, YouTube or twitch streamer etc. It's not for everyone, but that doesn't make it a rip-off.

Good for you.............but I was talking consoles in general..........and why does can you buy yearly subscriptions to the PSN then?

As for the abilities, you do realize that with my more epensive box, I can do the same and more?

As for preference..........well the problem is that you are using the word as a magic handwavium which is supposed to make my arguments go away just like "Well, that is just your opinion man..."

The thing is you're not helping your side of the argument any with your of argument

[Aidy]

Oh there it is is the loaded word........privilege..........am I supposed to have any reaction to it?

Loaded word? Reaction? It's just a word....it means an advantage only available to certain people. You can upgrade your hardware. I can't. Ergo you have a privilege I don't, and the reason you have that privilege is because you paid for it. Calm down, it's only words

Ok answer me a simple question, are you writing this comment from your console?

I could if I wanted to, my xbox has a browser. However the reason I'm not writing this on my console is the same reason I'm not pi**ing in my washing machine.

You have an OS, and games need to be installed, so it's not Plug&Play as it used to be with the first Playstation for example

That's an improvement, it gives us the ability to play the advanced games we have today. So consoles are a rip-off because they no longer use decades old technology?

To make it clear, what I said is that there is no difference between a PC and a console hardware side, they use the same x86 based processors, unlike the PS3 which used a different processor.
The Xbox and PS4 also use operating systems derive from PC operating systems, Xbox's one is Windows based (obviously) and the PS4's system is based on FreeBSD.

The PS used to be, put in the disk, start the game, play.
At a time when windows installation and especially driver installation was rather finicky...that was a big plus and selling point.
Anyone who has ever dealt with Windows 95 and Windows 98, or worse yet DOS, knows what a truly finicky driver installation and setup is. Think today is bad?
Try selecting the right colour palette for the graphics card and setting the right DMA and IRQ for the soundcard. And god forbid one of the devs screwed up the menu an the vlaue shown was not the value put in.......
And don't get me started on the stability of Windows 95 and 98 pre-SE (Second Edition, yub it was so bad it needed a second edition)..........or Windows ME, officially called the Millenium Edition, I just call it the Manure Edition.
Anyone in the mood for this classic?
https://xkcd.com/323/

What does any of this have to do with consoles being a rip-off?

As for the abilities, you do realize that with my more epensive box, I can do the same and more?

Yeah, cos you paid for the privilege

As for preference..........well the problem is that you are using the word as a magic handwavium which is supposed to make my arguments go away just like "Well, that is just your opinion man..."

That's not what I'm doing at all. I'm not dismissing your preference, I'm not saying your preference isn't valid....what I am saying is that your preference for one thing doesn't make the other thing bad. You haven't actually give any real reasons why consoles are a rip-off, you've just said some things you don't like about them. Nothing wrong with having those opinions, but maybe keep them for a thread that is about "What is better for gaming, console or PC?" (cos you know they're coming....)

[Verhoven 69]

Yup. And unfortunately we all keep on coming back to it. Hopefully, aside from ripping us off, console makers (ahem.........Sony) will see the light and stop virtue signalling and just do games like Steam.

[Mike]

I liked my PS1/PS2/Dremcast and so on. Those were a lot of fun. Now with consoles trying to nickle and dime you for multiplayer and other things, it's just not worth it for me. I don't need a dozen gateways and multiple layers of payment to enjoy a game. I'm also not the type of person to feel like I HAVE to play any specific game. If the company, platform, theme or quality of a game is bad and not to my liking then I can skip it. I understand that people enthralled by nostalgia (and nostalgia ain't bad) still feel compelled to jump through the hoops to play their favorite IPs though. The problem is these corporations are literally leveraging your nostalgia to dish out poor services and products. Your fondness of these IPs is being used against you in a bad way.

Spot on.. build up the customer base, then take that customer base for granted and fleece them for every penny they can squeeze from them, whilst putting out an inferior product dressed up as something better/more fun/better graphics... its the way of corporations, ones that are answerable to shareholders at least.

For a nostalgia kick you can go online today and buy a PS2 and a ton of the greatest games ever made for less than the price of the PS Classic, or a quarter the price of a Switch/PS4/Xbox One... no subscription charges, no downloads, and the best thing of all - you keep the physical discs... a novel idea, it'll never catch on!

Consoles are not inherently a rip-off, but anything where you pay to download "files" is a rip-off, and that includes Steam. Hardware is real and has value. Downloads have no value, and when the "service" ends you won't be able to play your games anymore. That to me is a rip-off.

[Hopeless Wombat]

It comes down to how well you know your way around building a computer. I think most people who play on console aren't that well adapted to that process outside of connecting cables and pressing a power button. Of course you'll get a better deal in performance if you can make a solid unit, but I think this market exists because a lot of people can't make one, can't be bothered or have to much to do to find the time to make and maintain one.

For those in that camp, consoles aren't just valuable, they're feasible. Consoles do their job of playing games at the end of the day.

[Aidy]

My xbox has no subscription charges, no downloads, I get to keep the physical discs....and the games are 1,000,000% better.

[MetroidJunkie]

Older consoles had more value than newer ones, in my opinion. Older consoles were more simple, more plug and play, more personal and physical. They had clear advantages over owning a PC. Nowadays, they've willfully sacrificed most of those advantages, essentially becoming locked down PC's that you can't upgrade. About the only reason to own a console nowadays is exclusives, which isn't really a matter of the hardware.