Are consoles a rip off?

[Ingeld]

I've owned every console and most handhelds under the sun. Retrospectively, in the long term, I can say they all end up costing much more than my trusty old PC's which I build myself and which typically last me ~4 years for gaming.

Unless you get into console gaming at the ass end of the life cycle, (i.e pick up a second hand ps3 now with a giant batch of bargain bin games for peanuts); a typical console bought on launch or near launch, with a library of ~80+ games you get as they come out will end up costing a few grand. Meanwhile, I have around 800 pc games across steam and gog etc that have all up been had for very little per game thanks to sales . What's more they carry over to my future gaming rigs. My PC's typically always cost under $1,100 to build.

I did the math, during my most enthusiastic console gaming period, I spent ~$8,000 on xbox 360 console and games over the course of 4 years. I bought close to 200 games, close to launch window prices. In the same period (2006-2010) I built a high end gaming rig and bought 300 steam games, all up for less than $3,000. Plus my PC did far more than the xboner360 ever could.

Keep in mind this was the last console generation where console specs vs pc were favourable for consoles. The xbox360 launched with 'high end gpu and cpu' for 2005. When ps4/xbox one launched, they came out with midrange gpu and a low end cpu that doomed them to 30fps for most titles. I did buy both out of simple habit, but they were a complete shitfest value-wise compared to the PC I had built in 2014, just a year later.

[MetroidJunkie]

Given that all 3 major platforms now require you to pay for online services, with Nintendo being the last holder out, and games generally costing more due to regularity of Steam discounts, I would argue that consoles are actually more expensive in the long run, especially for the savvy PC buyer who buys individual parts and is willing to sacrifice some visual fidelity for getting a better bargain. You can make a competent PC that can compete with the Ps4 Pro and Xbox One X for less than you'd think.

[Aidy]

I said those are the cons of the PC, but the pro that most people are willing to swallow the con for is that they give you absolute freedom to do things like download your own mods and crack games wide open and your OS and modify it as you see fit. Consoles don't have this, or at least it's extremely heavily discouraged if hackers find a way to do it. Older consoles had convenience, PC's had and still have the advantage of being able to modify on an absolute level. Modern consoles have neither of these advantages, only being stuck with the worst of both worlds.

So you've now completely abandoned your other argument that older consoles were better because they were simple but modern PCs are better because they are more complex, and now it's simply about which platform is more flexible?

You're sure right that the PC wins there, hands down. But you're paying for the privilege. Consoles being fairly locked down doesn't mean they're a rip-off. I bought mine just to play games, and that's what I do.

[AAneko]

I think it depends on what you use the console for. Back when I used to do some rendering with my PC, I have a Playstation handy to wait out the time. Plus back then some Japanese games are only available on the Playstation, but right now, with Sony hellbent on castrating themselves with their new censorships and whatnotm going as far as removing features and game mechanics from some games, buying those kind of games for the PS4 is a ripoff.

Exclusive games are also not a good reason to buy a console, some exclusives might turn out not that good and you'll be stuck with your console just collecting dust if that's the only reason you bought it for.

[MetroidJunkie]

I said those are the cons of the PC, but the pro that most people are willing to swallow the con for is that they give you absolute freedom to do things like download your own mods and crack games wide open and your OS and modify it as you see fit. Consoles don't have this, or at least it's extremely heavily discouraged if hackers find a way to do it. Older consoles had convenience, PC's had and still have the advantage of being able to modify on an absolute level. Modern consoles have neither of these advantages, only being stuck with the worst of both worlds.

[Aidy]

Not really, PC's still have the advantage of being able to upgrade parts out of them, tune it to your exact specifications, download mods, and generally have far more freedom than consoles. Consoles threw away the advantage of being simple to play when they introduced things like updates and more aggressive digital only buys. PC's have generally stayed the same while consoles strived to emulate the worst cons of PC's without any of the advantages.

So consoles getting more advanced with more features is a bad thing, but PCs getting more advanced with more features is a good thing? I remember back in the day PCs were PCs, they supported EGA or VGA, did some bleeps from the on-board bleeper and used the keyboard. Now it's all expansion cards, drivers, settings, INI files, compatibility issues, memory upgrades and types, hard-drive types, different types of USB. So that's bad, yeah? Cos things are better when they're simple even though they're also crap when they're simple? I struggle to see how you can hold seemingly contradictory views.

[MetroidJunkie]

Not really, PC's still have the advantage of being able to upgrade parts out of them, tune it to your exact specifications, download mods, and generally have far more freedom than consoles. Consoles threw away the advantage of being simple to play when they introduced things like updates and more aggressive digital only buys. PC's have generally stayed the same while consoles strived to emulate the worst cons of PC's without any of the advantages.

[Aidy]

Older consoles had more value than newer ones, in my opinion. Older consoles were more simple, more plug and play, more personal and physical. They had clear advantages over owning a PC. Nowadays, they've willfully sacrificed most of those advantages, essentially becoming locked down PC's that you can't upgrade. About the only reason to own a console nowadays is exclusives, which isn't really a matter of the hardware.

So by that logic older PCs are better too, they had clear advantages and now they've sacrificed those advantages, so why bother doing PC gaming now?

[MetroidJunkie]

Older consoles had more value than newer ones, in my opinion. Older consoles were more simple, more plug and play, more personal and physical. They had clear advantages over owning a PC. Nowadays, they've willfully sacrificed most of those advantages, essentially becoming locked down PC's that you can't upgrade. About the only reason to own a console nowadays is exclusives, which isn't really a matter of the hardware.

[Aidy]

My xbox has no subscription charges, no downloads, I get to keep the physical discs....and the games are 1,000,000% better.

[Hopeless Wombat]

It comes down to how well you know your way around building a computer. I think most people who play on console aren't that well adapted to that process outside of connecting cables and pressing a power button. Of course you'll get a better deal in performance if you can make a solid unit, but I think this market exists because a lot of people can't make one, can't be bothered or have to much to do to find the time to make and maintain one.

For those in that camp, consoles aren't just valuable, they're feasible. Consoles do their job of playing games at the end of the day.

[Mike]

I liked my PS1/PS2/Dremcast and so on. Those were a lot of fun. Now with consoles trying to nickle and dime you for multiplayer and other things, it's just not worth it for me. I don't need a dozen gateways and multiple layers of payment to enjoy a game. I'm also not the type of person to feel like I HAVE to play any specific game. If the company, platform, theme or quality of a game is bad and not to my liking then I can skip it. I understand that people enthralled by nostalgia (and nostalgia ain't bad) still feel compelled to jump through the hoops to play their favorite IPs though. The problem is these corporations are literally leveraging your nostalgia to dish out poor services and products. Your fondness of these IPs is being used against you in a bad way.

Spot on.. build up the customer base, then take that customer base for granted and fleece them for every penny they can squeeze from them, whilst putting out an inferior product dressed up as something better/more fun/better graphics... its the way of corporations, ones that are answerable to shareholders at least.

For a nostalgia kick you can go online today and buy a PS2 and a ton of the greatest games ever made for less than the price of the PS Classic, or a quarter the price of a Switch/PS4/Xbox One... no subscription charges, no downloads, and the best thing of all - you keep the physical discs... a novel idea, it'll never catch on!

Consoles are not inherently a rip-off, but anything where you pay to download "files" is a rip-off, and that includes Steam. Hardware is real and has value. Downloads have no value, and when the "service" ends you won't be able to play your games anymore. That to me is a rip-off.

[Verhoven 69]

Yup. And unfortunately we all keep on coming back to it. Hopefully, aside from ripping us off, console makers (ahem.........Sony) will see the light and stop virtue signalling and just do games like Steam.

[Aidy]

Oh there it is is the loaded word........privilege..........am I supposed to have any reaction to it?

Loaded word? Reaction? It's just a word....it means an advantage only available to certain people. You can upgrade your hardware. I can't. Ergo you have a privilege I don't, and the reason you have that privilege is because you paid for it. Calm down, it's only words

Ok answer me a simple question, are you writing this comment from your console?

I could if I wanted to, my xbox has a browser. However the reason I'm not writing this on my console is the same reason I'm not pi**ing in my washing machine.

You have an OS, and games need to be installed, so it's not Plug&Play as it used to be with the first Playstation for example

That's an improvement, it gives us the ability to play the advanced games we have today. So consoles are a rip-off because they no longer use decades old technology?

To make it clear, what I said is that there is no difference between a PC and a console hardware side, they use the same x86 based processors, unlike the PS3 which used a different processor.
The Xbox and PS4 also use operating systems derive from PC operating systems, Xbox's one is Windows based (obviously) and the PS4's system is based on FreeBSD.

The PS used to be, put in the disk, start the game, play.
At a time when windows installation and especially driver installation was rather finicky...that was a big plus and selling point.
Anyone who has ever dealt with Windows 95 and Windows 98, or worse yet DOS, knows what a truly finicky driver installation and setup is. Think today is bad?
Try selecting the right colour palette for the graphics card and setting the right DMA and IRQ for the soundcard. And god forbid one of the devs screwed up the menu an the vlaue shown was not the value put in.......
And don't get me started on the stability of Windows 95 and 98 pre-SE (Second Edition, yub it was so bad it needed a second edition)..........or Windows ME, officially called the Millenium Edition, I just call it the Manure Edition.
Anyone in the mood for this classic?
https://xkcd.com/323/

What does any of this have to do with consoles being a rip-off?

As for the abilities, you do realize that with my more epensive box, I can do the same and more?

Yeah, cos you paid for the privilege

As for preference..........well the problem is that you are using the word as a magic handwavium which is supposed to make my arguments go away just like "Well, that is just your opinion man..."

That's not what I'm doing at all. I'm not dismissing your preference, I'm not saying your preference isn't valid....what I am saying is that your preference for one thing doesn't make the other thing bad. You haven't actually give any real reasons why consoles are a rip-off, you've just said some things you don't like about them. Nothing wrong with having those opinions, but maybe keep them for a thread that is about "What is better for gaming, console or PC?" (cos you know they're coming....)

[Wolf]

You might prefer a PC and like to keep your hardware up to date, no-one is claiming that consoles are the equivalent to a PC, but remember you paid 1.5k for the privilege of that, you can get a console for a couple of hundred. The fact that you don't mind spending thousands on a PC doesn't mean consoles are a rip-off, it just means you don't mind spending the extra money for the extra flexibility.

Oh there it is is the loaded word........privilege..........am I supposed to have any reaction to it?

Ok answer me a simple question, are you writing this comment from your console?

And consoles are a rip-off because you have to install games? lolwut? You have to install games on a PC too Also the internet access on my XBOX costs me nothing extra. And I don't see how the fact that your mate bought the wrong hardware means consoles are a rip-off either.

I guess you misread something here, I said that consoles do not have the advantage of Plug and Play, like they used to, you know during the
Let me give you the whole quote, instead of that trunctuated version you quoted.
"Personally I would say yes,consoles are a rip-off, and not just for the obvious reasons, that they are essentially on the technical side proprietary PCs.
You have an OS, and games need to be installed, so it's not Plug&Play as it used to be with the first Playstation for example, a friend of mine owned one, and I have a few fond memories of it. "

To make it clear, what I said is that there is no difference between a PC and a console hardware side, they use the same x86 based processors, unlike the PS3 which used a different processor.
The Xbox and PS4 also use operating systems derive from PC operating systems, Xbox's one is Windows based (obviously) and the PS4's system is based on FreeBSD.

The PS used to be, put in the disk, start the game, play.
At a time when windows installation and especially driver installation was rather finicky...that was a big plus and selling point.
Anyone who has ever dealt with Windows 95 and Windows 98, or worse yet DOS, knows what a truly finicky driver installation and setup is. Think today is bad?
Try selecting the right colour palette for the graphics card and setting the right DMA and IRQ for the soundcard. And god forbid one of the devs screwed up the menu an the vlaue shown was not the value put in.......
And don't get me started on the stability of Windows 95 and 98 pre-SE (Second Edition, yub it was so bad it needed a second edition)..........or Windows ME, officially called the Millenium Edition, I just call it the Manure Edition.
Anyone in the mood for this classic?
https://xkcd.com/323/

Now after that little excursion into the dark and seedy world of OS's in the nineties.........let's get back on topic. the hardware question.
To be honest I don't quite know how that not buying the wrong hardware is supposed to work, several years before the new console or the new wheel come out.
You've got to explain that one to me.

To be honest, if my friend

You preferring something doesn't make the alternative "bad", it just means you have a preference. For a few hundred I get to play the latest games with no hassle on a box that doubles as a Blu-ray player, Netflix player, amazon prime player, YouTube or twitch streamer etc. It's not for everyone, but that doesn't make it a rip-off.

Good for you.............but I was talking consoles in general..........and why does can you buy yearly subscriptions to the PSN then?

As for the abilities, you do realize that with my more epensive box, I can do the same and more?

As for preference..........well the problem is that you are using the word as a magic handwavium which is supposed to make my arguments go away just like "Well, that is just your opinion man..."

The thing is you're not helping your side of the argument any with your of argument