Are consoles a rip off?

[Baron Baldric]

The consoles are PC without a monitor, they were invented because it was very expensive to buy a complete PC for a family and all the families had a TV. Now TVs and monitors are practically the same, not even specific hardware is made to run games, the consoles are AMD generic APUs. For example, PS4 has a processor that performs like an A10 9700 with an RX 560 GPU. With Nintendo, the thing gets uglier, putting only 4 gb of ram in a console when the minimum to play is 6GB (4ram 2vram) is crazy.

The current consoles have lost all the advantages of the traditional ones, games in digital format, permanent connection, mods, backwards compatible ... they have been shitting in gamers for a long time.

The consoles are still good for the children, if you have a child you want to have control of their recreational activities.

[Zenryu]

Nope, I think specifically the ps4 and switch are not a rip off. I have gotten what I feel is my money's worth. All I have been playing lately are ps4 exclusives as they are what have been catching my eye. I do have a PC that absolutely destroys any of my consoles, yet I generally go toward consoles since they have the games I am interested in, which makes them worth it for me. Also generally get 3rd party games on the ps4 just to keep things on the same platform, despite them having better performance on pc. Mainly been using my PC for VR stuff lately. If those exclusives don't catch someone's eyes, then yes, they are 100% ripoffs, as a PC will usually give a better experience with 3rd party titles other than a select few, especially with the modding abilities.

I do agree that paying for online is a ripoff. I don't see much of a difference with my online experience after psn went subscription based. I actually think psplus was more worth it before it was required to play online and was optional.

[Valkenr]

So where does the money to pay for online services come from? Box sales cover development, marketing, beta-hosting costs and maybe a small warchest (more likely exec. bonuses those people are expensive to keep around). I hear this argument a lot and it falls apart quickly. XBL & PS+ are minor costs and less intrusive than anything out there. Subscription based MMOs were (and some still are) ~$15/month. Online PC games were either subscription based, peer to peer, or server-based. Peer-to-peer was the only true free option, and that was mostly RTS or co-op games (games like this don't usually require a platform subscription these days). Most games were either on a subscription for developer provided servers, or a group of people (or a person) had to buy a server. Now our platform subscription covers part of what we used to pay for online services, and the difference is made up with immersion breaking, intrusive, whale bait microtransactions. I guess that's a good thing? (I don't think it is).

And XBL and PS+ are not required for many games, and a lot of online games (especially peer-to-peer coop). If you want to pay with a bunch of other players online, you'll have to pay. Even then, you can do your research and only buy-in for a month or two for titles you really want to play online.

I'm going to assume that 17 isn't USD. My XBL and PS+ combined only costs me 10USD a month for every game on the platform. That is a steal compared to my monthly costs a decade ago.

[Aidy]

Personally I would say yes,consoles are a rip-off

You might prefer a PC and like to keep your hardware up to date, no-one is claiming that consoles are the equivalent to a PC, but remember you paid 1.5k for the privilege of that, you can get a console for a couple of hundred. The fact that you don't mind spending thousands on a PC doesn't mean consoles are a rip-off, it just means you don't mind spending the extra money for the extra flexibility.

And consoles are a rip-off because you have to install games? lolwut? You have to install games on a PC too Also the internet access on my XBOX costs me nothing extra. And I don't see how the fact that your mate bought the wrong hardware means consoles are a rip-off either.

You preferring something doesn't make the alternative "bad", it just means you have a preference. For a few hundred I get to play the latest games with no hassle on a box that doubles as a Blu-ray player, Netflix player, amazon prime player, YouTube or twitch streamer etc. It's not for everyone, but that doesn't make it a rip-off.

[Wolf]

Full disclosure, I'm a PC Gamer, so you might cry bias.

But I'd ask you to hear me out first.

Personally I would say yes,consoles are a rip-off, and not just for the obvious reasons, that they are essentially on the technical side proprietary PCs.
You have an OS, and games need to be installed, so it's not Plug&Play as it used to be with the first Playstation for example, a friend of mine owned one, and I have a few fond memories of it.

The reason I say it's a rip-off is that you might spend less up front, a Console is cheaper, but in the long run, and I have built several PCs that lasted me between 4-6 years, you pay more, because each game has a higher base price.

Aside from that you have to pay for internet access on top of your ISP bill.

And then comes the biggest gripe for me, designed and enforced obsolescence, namely that a lot of hardware that you get for the consoles will be obsolete at a certain point when the manufacturers decide it is time.
I got a used Logitech G27 Wheel-set (Wheel, Pedals (Gas, Brake, Clutch) and Shifter) for the awesome price of 130 Euros........normally that thing costs you 160-200-ish used and over 200 new.
The reason that guy had to sell, and I could buy a perfectly working G27 that cheap, is because both Logitech and Sony decided not to support it with the PS4.

So he had to buy a new wheel in the 300-400 Euro Range, just because the Manufacturers decided it was time to milk him for cash.

At the same time this wheel which came out in 2010 and it's predecessor the G25 from 2006 have full driver support on every modern Windows from Vista to Windows 10.
And even older Windows XP if you want to run a virtual machine.

Now ask yourself, how would you like having to replace an input device that you saved for, that cost you a lot of money and still has a lot of service life left, because someone decided that you should buy something new?

I could also point out that you don't get modding or rather as free modding as on PC, and that certain genres, especially in the Sim Category are either completely absent or only exist in a very limited way on Consoles, but I think I made my point.

Generally I could say that the games I would want to play, aren't availlable on PC.
I'm also freer in my choice what types of game I want to buy and from whom.

Aidy Ah well the 2K Gaming PC claim.........honestly I have never built one that costs that much and only very few people do so.
Mine has cost me around 1.2-1.4 k so far and only because I chose to put in 2 SSDs (500GB and 1TB) because I have some games that eat up space like crazy and love an SSD.
My Mouse is 9 years old my Keyboard even older, my monitor is of similar age, until it broke my Saitek X52 lasted me 9 years, and back then it had cost me 90 euros.
My Case has seen the second generation of Hardware and the third Graphics Card by now, same goes for my PSU one of the infamous Corsair HX750W and I still have warranty on it.
In fact it's the third generation of Hardware for my PSU.(I might just replace it because it's getting old, running out of warranty and there are newer more effective ones out.....but I don't need to.)
And I know people that run Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar which came out in 2003 are still using them, because Thrustmaster runs a spare parts program.
Stuff lasts and that way even a HOTAS that costs 320 Euros will ammortize rather nicely, if you can use it that long.

Also one other point, aside from gaming, I can watch Blurays, surf, watch the reviews and videos just like you with this PC.
But I can also work with it not just everyday office work, but also digital development of photos, digitalizing the family collection of slides and negatives, and even cutting and rendering videos when I need too.
And I don't need an extra PC, Tablet or anything else for that........which is generally what people don't tend to factor in when they make the price argument for consoles.


P.S. If you wonder why I bought a used wheel, well it was my first one and I wasn't sure if I'd keep on simracing, so I didn't want to spend hundreds of Euros.
Then it was a decision between a new Driving Force GT, a used one and that's when the used G27s popped up........and they were just too good a deal.
I mean either get a wheel with only gas and brake pedals, no clutch, and a sequential shifter as new, or for even less money, get a wheel with gas, brake and clutch pedals, paddle shifter and a manual H-pattern shifter.

[ryvrdrgn14]

I liked my PS1/PS2/Dreamcast and so on. Those were a lot of fun. Now with consoles trying to nickle and dime you for multiplayer and other things, it's just not worth it for me. I don't need a dozen gateways and multiple layers of payment to enjoy a game. I'm also not the type of person to feel like I HAVE to play any specific game. If the company, platform, theme or quality of a game is bad and not to my liking then I can skip it. I understand that people enthralled by nostalgia (and nostalgia ain't bad) still feel compelled to jump through the hoops to play their favorite IPs though. The problem is these corporations are literally leveraging your nostalgia to dish out poor services and products. Your fondness of these IPs is being used against you in a bad way.

And yes, this happens to PC as well, but at least there are less payment gateways to go through and the selection is broader than what consoles offer. I can also just emulate older games that I like and play them in the forms before they were stuffed up the wazoo with microtransactions, subscriptions and ads.

[Tysakasa]

I don't feel that they're a ripoff, just an alternative. There are people who just want to be able to play a game that interests them without having the worry if their hardware is up to par in order to play it at a stable rate nor have to worry about any software issues (Windows putting out a bad update or even a bad driver update from Nvidia and AMD). There are also those who have a bit of a mental block when it comes to technology, where no matter how hard they try, it simply doesn't click, so they'll feel overwhelmed when looking at system requirements in order to play a game and not seeing their specific parts being listed, they'll have to constantly go and ask others "can I play this game?" even though their system very well can, maybe not maxed out, but at least on high with smooth frames. So to them, consoles will feel more comforting because all they have to do is look for games that were developed for it (which if at a store, the boxes kind of give away what system it's for) and buy it without having to do any extra considerations.

There's also social habits that need to be taken into consideration. Consoles offer party play, so if you have friends or family over often, you can game with them without dragging over extra equipment (a game and controller at most). Can't play Diablo 3 with my nephew on PC because he doesn't have his own computer, but we can play it together on console because it offers couch play and I have two controllers for my PS4. Now sure there are some PC games that do offer single system support (if I recall, Dungeon Defenders allows you to have at least a second person playing with you on a single computer, maybe up to four like on console), but not everyone's PC set up is suited to this.

As for online comparisons. Yeah the monthly online fee that they expect in order to play the majority of their games online is pretty balls, especially since most of said games tend to be peer-to-peer instead of using dedicated servers (any more than four people in a match should never be peer-to-peer) and the overall online service is pretty mediocre

Now, if you're going out and getting a console expecting amazing graphics, then yeah, they're a rip off. Sure they can pump out some pretty impressive visuals with the hardware that they have, but they'll always fall short when compared to what a PC can.

[Oysterhead]

There was a "think" missing before "every PC gamer" - I doubt that changes stuff for you though. So what is wrong and why?
Also I think just labeling someone a troll and not giving arguments or a sound reply at all is pretty weak.

[Aidy]

lol, isn't selling at a loss an indication, that it IS a ripoff^^ I mean, they can only do that, because in the end, they will get the money back. This actually sounds like a very good argument to me. The console people know, the consumer in average will have to pay them SO MUCH (pricey games, premium, online), they can initially sell at a loss. This would never ever happen with the masterrace. Maybe I am missing sth, how is this not an indication of ripoffery?
Now I am at a total loss regarding your assertion about reviews. Why do you think that? 90%? In what world? I can tell you, it's not this one. Even if true, you can very easily find someone who does reviews focused on other stuff. BTW I would have said, it's like 5% and at the absolute top! So this is very strange to me. It's your MAIN point aswell, you are confusing the heck out of me right now! xD This sounds to me like you never read a single review and every PC gamer is jerking his dick to his framerate, just seeking a new high, "let's read my favourite reviewer, Framejunkies, what is this?! 3000 frames in Minecraft?! *sploooch*". Maybe I just randomly read the exact right sites though and out there in the wild world of PC gaming reviews, where 90%, or probably more like 98% to make up for what I usually read, is about the framerate..

1) go troll someone else
2) ????
3) win!

[Oysterhead]

Given the majority of consoles are sold at a loss then by definition they're not a rip-off. You get more options with a PC and you get a chance to keep its hardware up-to-date, but you pay for that privilege. Your $2000 gaming PC, if I sold that to you for $500 hoping to make my money back on the games you then buy would you say "Wow, what a rip-off". Of course not.

However the main advantage to console gaming is that I can read a written review, or watch a YouTube video about a game and learn what it's like to play, what the pros and cons are, if I'm likely to enjoy it and so on. Whereas 90% of any PC review (written or video) is about framerates.

lol, isn't selling at a loss an indication, that it IS a ripoff^^ I mean, they can only do that, because in the end, they will get the money back. This actually sounds like a very good argument to me. The console people know, the consumer in average will have to pay them SO MUCH (pricey games, premium, online), they can initially sell at a loss. This would never ever happen with the masterrace. Maybe I am missing sth, how is this not an indication of ripoffery?
Now I am at a total loss regarding your assertion about reviews. Why do you think that? 90%? In what world? I can tell you, it's not this one. Even if true, you can very easily find someone who does reviews focused on other stuff. BTW I would have said, it's like 5% and at the absolute top! So this is very strange to me. It's your MAIN point aswell, you are confusing the heck out of me right now! xD This sounds to me like you never read a single review and think every PC gamer is jerking his dick to his framerate, just seeking a new high, "let's read my favourite reviewer, Framejunkies, what is this?! 3000 frames in Minecraft?! *sploooch*". Maybe I just randomly read the exact right sites though and out there in the wild world of PC gaming reviews, where 90%, or probably more like 98% to make up for what I usually read, is about the framerate, it's different...

[RepentantSky]

Sorry, but your examples fall very flat. Exclusive games is a very good argument. If the only brand of shoes are sold by a single store, it's a good reason to go to that store. It's not like you can go anywhere else to get them. Using your example, if there are exclusive games on PC then buying a PC is a rip off because I should be able to play it on my phone.

Can't really argue with this logic, even if you want to. Exclusivity sells games, even if you don't like it.

[zeorhymer]

Exclusives is an extremely poor argument. What, basically, this argument is saying is "I pay for privilege to play these specific games". Now, people may point out that PCs have exclusives as well, and they would be 100% right, however, what they may not take into consideration is that PC gaming is not owned by anyone, neither Valve (because of Steam) nor Microsoft (because Windows OS) unlike console gaming where they may make such rudimentary functions (in today's standards) as internet connection inaccessible without extra monthly cost.

Sorry, but your examples fall very flat. Exclusive games is a very good argument. If the only brand of shoes are sold by a single store, it's a good reason to go to that store. It's not like you can go anywhere else to get them. Using your example, if there are exclusive games on PC then buying a PC is a rip off because I should be able to play it on my phone.

[Eriixas]

Most of people over here may simply say "it's not a ripoff" without providing any good arguments to support it. Remember, we are strangers, we don't see the same way and people, generally, won't take such sentences more than "it's just my biased opinion because I cannot provide more than that" in topics as this one.

Exclusives is an extremely poor argument. What, basically, this argument is saying is "I pay for privilege to play these specific games". Now, people may point out that PCs have exclusives as well, and they would be 100% right, however, what they may not take into consideration is that PC gaming is not owned by anyone, neither Valve (because of Steam) nor Microsoft (because Windows OS) unlike console gaming where they may make such rudimentary functions (in today's standards) as internet connection inaccessible without extra monthly cost.

[Oysterhead]

I like the word retarded, keep using it. I like arguments more though. This is just an assertion and it's all over the place aswell. First you assert elitism, then you assert bias is being masqueraded as elitism. So it isn't elitism? This makes no sense. Also even if true and everyone saying consoles are a ripoff is an elitist and/or biased, it would only indicate a direction and not proof anything.So rather then discussing the motivation (of the ones argueing), to make a point, you should discuss the facts of the matter. Why are they not a ripoff? Would the PC masterrace being elitist help answer this question? No. Ok, so much about the discussion itself.

[RepentantSky]

Nope. I mean I don't know what else you want me to add but they are clearly not. If anything, PC's have a tendency to be a rip-off considering some of the companies that make parts for them outright lie in ads or pay people to lie for them in order to make something seem better than it is just to get a sale. And you can say that you are too smart to get tricked by that, and maybe you are, but they are obviously lying for some reason, so clearly enough people aren't.