Question about gamer's/websites/shows attitudes towards games

[DeanKind]

Hi, as an old fart at the grand age of 33, this thought of mine has persisted to plague my mind when it comes to new/upcoming games and I just thought I'd share it with you all to see if maybe I can put this to rest.
This is in no way to be taken as an insult or a moan and whine-fest. But just genuinely how I feel about the game industry and the games media.

When I was younger and a game was coming out, you kind of looked forward to it, via game mags, interviews and some TV shows (like Games Master etc).
Now it just seems when a new game is coming out it's 90% negativity and 10% "info on the game" even before it's released.
I also understand WHY this is a thing too...because mags would LIE etc so I understand the scepticism (again...33 now, not a baby).
But I think now it's just becoming a bit of a farce of journalism and the tribalism of gamers now (I don't like something, and I want everyone to agree with me, attitude, I hate social media! lol), I don't want to say "gamers are entitled" because that's harsh, but it's getting hard to dispute, because we're in a day and age now where games are pretty damn good, the quality is getting better (not all!) and the amount of different styles and genres of games are overwhelming.
Yet gamers never seem to be happy, we want more and want it now! and it needs to be PERFECT!!!
But compared to what?...when did we ever have a perfect game?
Is Final Fantasy 7 perfect? is Mario 64 perfect? Goldeneye? Tekken?
Our standards are super high and being honest with the amount of crap devs need to go through to pump out a product for us consumers to swallow up, I wouldn't wanna be a game dev. Am I saying we shouldn't voice our opinions or concerns, of course not, but some of the moaning and whining and complaints about why this game is going to SUCK! is becoming a joke.

Now the best personal example I can give of recent memory was Mass Effect: Andromeda. I genuinely was looking forward to this bad boy, I bought a new 4k TV and a PS4 Pro to play this at it's highest potential (That's one hell of an investment lol, and yes I know PC is best...but I suck on PC).
Now as a rule of thumb, I don't tend to play games as soon as they are released because there will ALWAYS be bugs/issues etc, and that's why patches exist, so I tend to wait a few weeks/months before I start playing a new title.
Even the great and wonderful and amazing no-one-can-ever-say-a-bad-thing-about-this-game-ever-or-you're-evil The Witcher 3...had bugs and issues (Amazing game though!).
And before anyone says "Well don't release it until it's 100% perfect"...games in the past weren't perfect masterpieces either. Mario 64 has bugs, Zelda 64 has bugs and a famous WWF No Mercy had a game-breaking bug...no update patches for that.
Now back to my example...Mass Effect had issues for sure (Animations being a main critique, comparing it to Uncharted 4, which is simply a terrible comparison for many reasons...but that's another topic), and I was seeing all these IT'S A BROKEN GAME, WORST GAME EVER...EA SUCKS etc...so I was dreading playing this game, I loved the original Mass Effect trilogy (don't get me started on the ending to 3...so many whiners about that too...I also realise re-reading all this I'm coming across as a BioWare fanboy...not true, lol coincidence, promise)
So when I finally did play it...I came across absolutely none of the issues, the game ran perfectly fine, the only time I had a problem was 1 single crash...but that could've been the PS4. So I don't have a bad thing to say about ME:A. Is it better than the original trilogy...no, but is it the MOST BROKEN GAME EVER!!! BIOWARE/EA SUCK!!!...also no.
And then to add insult...people complained about...why EA/Bioware gave up on it??? Where are the DLC's??? Why did you give up on it???
Well...type in Mass Effect: Andromeda on YouTube/Google and why would you continue on with it, if I didn't know better I'd have thought this was the worst game ever created.

Now that's just a personal/recent example, I could list many many more, but my point is, gamers opinions now carries weight, social media carries waay to much influence in my opinion on how games are being perceived/released and even if games should be continued or not.
I mean let's look at games most agree are amazing...Doom (2016) or The Witcher 3, do you think if gamers had more influence on those games, they'd have turned out the great pieces of software they are?
Do you think the "Family Matters" mission on Witcher 3 would have been available if gamers opinions had anything to say on that...yet it's one of the best missions I've ever had the pleasure to experience.

Sir Alex Ferguson (Football manager for those who don't know) said a quote years ago that I believe is true in football as it is to fans of games. (Can't seem to find the exact quote...you fail Google!)
It went something along the lines of fans are fickle, they don't know what they want, they'll boo you one minute and sing your praises the next they forgive and forget quickly (Something along those lines).
And I think this is true to a certain extent, that gamers/reviewers are overly harsh/critical and very rarely praising unless it's a game that's established as a "must love" franchise, like Mario and Zelda (trust me, there ARE bad Zelda/Mario games) yet they get unreal praise.

So after this long-winded post my questions are...
Are gamers entitled?
Are media overly harsh/influencing?
Should we have a say on games?

(And no I think micro-transactions should die! and have every right for gamers to be annoyed and frustrated with this practice. So please again don't get confused with what I'm saying, I'm not saying any complaint you have just shut up and deal with it.)

Be kind and gentle :P

[isturbo1984]

Originally posted by isturbo1984 View Post

This is relevant because so many casuals are toxic in their underachieving play-style...

Why are you expecting other people to play games in a certain way?

I don't. I expect people to not attack others to mask their underachievements and insecurities just because they choose to play a certain way. Please tell me how you arrived at the conclusion that what I was trying to say was I expect others to play like me or a specific way. I never hinted or eluded to that suggestion in the slightest. Maybe you are projecting?

[Ryan]

You deserve a longer response, but know that this 34 year old agrees with your sentiments 100% - except for your stance on microtransactions. I don't disagree with a company's right to acquire revenue in whatever, legal, means they find necessary. It's my right as a consumer to accept or deny these actions with the power of my wallet's vote.

[aileron]

This is relevant because so many casuals are toxic in their underachieving play-style...

Why are you expecting other people to play games in a certain way?

It's a strange world when you get attacked in every other thread on a gaming forum for just for playing games.

Definitely.

[electrospasm]

"don't get me started on the ending to 3...so many whiners about that too"
This is what got me. Bioware deserved that shitstorm. They made promises, didn't keep them and then proceeded to insult the fandom. Creating an RGB ending for an RPG game is like stopping in front of the finish line and ending the race in last place.

[isturbo1984]

its pretty obvious he is just a fan. fan does not equal fanboy. its not equated to being a console fanboy, like some lunatic who only buys and plays products from, say, Xbox. nobody buys and plays only games from one dev, lol. not even the most hardcore of fans.

[isturbo1984]

Gaming is pretty divided. I find what I love in the industry and who I like in the community shrink every day. I don't think its fair to call myself an elitist when I've stayed stationary most of my gaming life while everyone else drifted off to become a casual or fanatic. But I still have a live and let live philosophy when it comes to gaming, but that doesn't mean that philosophy extends to those not willing to do the same.--Which is very few. This is relevant because so many casuals are toxic in their underachieving play-style and misinformed nature. It's a strange world when you get attacked in every other thread on a gaming forum for just for playing games. Add that to fanboysim and you have a very divided gaming ecosystem where its dog eat dog everywhere you go. Gamers fucking suck. Change my mind.

...And that is just within the gaming community. Not accounting for non-gamers, journalists and game activists who look down on me just for existing. And also, not accounting for the industry eating itself alive right now with loot boxes and MTXs...

[Tonic]

I know it's a hot topic, but please remain civil to each other.

[Magvel]

I mean all kind of media, YouTubers included, probably more so YouTubers being honest. User reviews are incredibly iffy imo because said users can be influenced by said YouTubers, lol (And yes...God Of War isn't THAT great :P)

Didn't finish my post lol that's posting at 1:30 AM for me lmao. User reviews are imo the best kind (or I guess the least bad), sure you can get shit like "Angry man screams BOY and there's literally a command to do it so profound and deep 10/10 game of the generation". To me it's not really different from journalist ones except the user is free to word it however he likes (because if you got paid by Activision to give a 17/20 to Infinite Warfare good luck making the game look like it's worthy of that note lol). After that you just have to pick the ones you think are good and dismiss the bad ones, just like games.

[Thomas_JCG]

On-line components are far more likely to have micro transactions because they need the money.

Jesus in a tricycle, you are beyond help. I'm done talking with you.

[Aidy]

Haha, wrong. Anyone can publish a magazine.

God you're pathetic.

DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THAT CANDY CRUSH IS A GOOD GAME?

I don't, no, which is why I don't spend money on it. But those who do spend money on it obviously think it is. Are you the arbiter of what is "good"? What people should spend money on?

of the examples you gave have major online components and/or are packed full of MTX

On-line components are far more likely to have micro transactions because they need the money. The servers need money to run. I'm not interested in on-line gaming so I simply don't play those games on line. Again no-one is holding a gun to my head. No-one is being scammed. No-one is being manipulated. All we have is people like you complaining because people don't play games like you do. Only complaining again and again and again and again on thread after thread after thread after thread.

If your take on what I've been saying is that I can't find stuff, then yes, you are horribly ignorant. You don't understand how microtransactions work at all, you don't understand why people are complaining, and what is wrong with the gaming media. It's like you can't see anything below the surface, and convinced yourself that everything is fine.

I don't understand why people are complaining because I have no problems at all finding games that don't have micro transactions, aren't on-line only. But yeah....I'm the ignorant one,

[Thomas_JCG]

That's irrelevant. Anyone can have a website but not anyone can publish a magazine.

Haha, wrong. Anyone can publish a magazine.
https://www.wikihow.com/Self-Publish-a-Magazine

Listen to yourself, you're talking about ONE GAME.

I'm giving an EXAMPLE. My point is that studios are putting more games with online focus, Anthem is just the latest in a long line of mediocre games.

So people buy games that aren't good and pay micro transactions on games that aren't good? No-one needs to make good games. GTA, Red Dead Redemption, Assassin's Creed, God of War. Yeah, people don't make good games anymore, they don't need to.

YES! DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THAT CANDY CRUSH IS A GOOD GAME? It's like you don't even understand how microtransactions work: it's all about providing the player a way to trade boring grind for immediate gratification.
Also, three of the examples you gave have major online components and/or are packed full of MTX, in case you already forgot the incidents with Assassin's Creed Odyssey XP boost and RDR2 disaster of economy where you had to grind for hundreds of hours to buy a horse this past year. So much for good games.

You can't find good journalism, you can't find good games, you can't find any game that isn't Anthem, Fallout 76 or Battlefield V and you think I'm ignorant?

If your take on what I've been saying is that I can't find stuff, then yes, you are horribly ignorant. You don't understand how microtransactions work at all, you don't understand why people are complaining, and what is wrong with the gaming media. It's like you can't see anything below the surface, and convinced yourself that everything is fine.

[Goldenfoxx]

I'm sorry you think I'm a fanboy and that affects the seriousness of your opinion, I have hundreds of games that isn't BioWare...as stated it's just the freshest one that came to mind.
BioWare's communication is bad I agree and also as stated I didn't say ME:A was a underrated masterpiece in disguise either, I agree whole hearted that the quality of the story was lower than the original 3.

Just an opinion here if I may, or maybe a question that stems from my own opinion: Why should being a fanboy necessarily detract from solid opinions? I fully admit to being a 44-year-old fanboy of Assassin's Creed, the Arkham games, the LEGO games, Rock Band and older Guitar Hero games, the Sierra Quest games, and a few others. I'd LIKE to think that the hardcore core fanbase of a franchise might actually know what does or doesn't work in a franchise. Just because we really love a series and are occasionally willing to overlook some serious flaws in games, I don't think that means our opinions are invalidated.

...I hope I didn't come across as saying that ALL gamers are entitled, as it wasn't my intention

Not at all, but it has to be brought up anyway because that's how the gaming journalists (the dedicated sites like Kotaku, not necessarily the YouTube channels) have decided to paint gamers as of late. And it's not so much that they paint "all gamers" that way as much as "all gamers that are angry or voicing complaints."

That being said though, just because you and I don't tend to go by what reviewers/journalists etc say, doesn't mean it doesn't have a impact on other people.

And that's a problem, but it's not a wholly unexpected one. I understand the attraction to hearing a YouTube content creator like an Angry Joe voice an unpopular opinion when it's an opinion that the gamer him/her-self shares, especially if the gamer has been routinely mocked for liking or not liking a game. Somewhere along the way, though, for some gamers, once they've latched on to a kind of connection with that reviewer, that reviewer suddenly becomes kind of an idol with an infallible opinion that is backed up by humorous snark and mock anger. Once in that mindset, even intentionally over-the-top anger like that of James Rolfe can/will cross the line into an infallible opinion. It's like taking CinemaSins seriously. You want to see a game you hate taken down in a way that makes you laugh, and suddenly there are people who will fight for that opinion or get seriously offended by it. Sins of youth, I guess, or maybe sins of inexperience. And I don't know how to go about breaking or weaning people off of that. Hopefully, most of them will just grow up after awhile. The realm problem, though, is that when people like professional gaming journalists see that sort of behavior, it makes it easy to cast all complaints in that light, and that's a huge fallacy.

[twidget]

DeanKind I'm 70. Hold my beer!

"Are gamers entitled?"
Gamers, like any consumer, are entitled to a product not broken when sold.
We are entitled to a timely, fair and equitable resolution of problems.
We are entitled to honest reviews from journalists that disclose if they've been on a junket or received gifts paid for by a publisher promoting a game they'll review.
We are entitled to post our own reviews without fear of retribution through bans or DMCA claims.

"Are media overly harsh..."
If you mean like when the media proclaimed gamers were dead or by pushing some political agenda, ya, it is!

"Should we have a say on games?"
We do.
We say all kinds of things to devs and their corporate masters.
We say that crap games are OK because they're still profitable.
We say pre-orders are OK because gamers use them.
We say OK to micro-transactions when we use them to buy things that should be available in-game, without excessive grinding.
We say OK to loot boxes by buying them.
We say lots of things, loud and often, when we're sold some hyped-up, broken POS.
We also post to devs and various places that collect feedback on games and content desires.

They say the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
I can't imagine what it's like to be a dev surrounded by loud, squeaky wheels.

tl/dr
We are entitled!
Fuck the old established game's media.
Money talks.

[DeanKind]

You do and it makes it difficult for me to take your opinion seriously. I used to be a huge fan of Bioware, I finished the 2nd ME game at least 7 times and had well over 700 hours in the multiplayer. The ending of the 3rd game was insulting, Bioware's communication after the 3rd game was insulting. They had a chance to get the community back on their page with Andromeda but they actually managed to go down in quality, the writing is unbearable at some points.

Gamers are not entitled, gamers are beginning to realise that they hold the money and they refuse to spend it on shit (that includes companies who treat their actual customers as sub-humans).

I'm sorry you think I'm a fanboy and that affects the seriousness of your opinion, I have hundreds of games that isn't BioWare...as stated it's just the freshest one that came to mind.
BioWare's communication is bad I agree and also as stated I didn't say ME:A was a underrated masterpiece in disguise either, I agree whole hearted that the quality of the story was lower than the original 3.

I feel like you just wanted to vent because you made a stupid choice and slapped down like $2000 on hardware between a TV and a console just to get ready for Mass Effect Andromeda. Its fine.

But man this is a bit too much. All you have to do to find out if you will enjoy a game is not even look for a review. Just look at some gameplay videos, that is so easy these days. Of course we needed reviews before web video. Outside of that it was store kiosks, demos included on other games or given as promos with a magazine or a box of cereal or whatever. Then you could also just play at a friend's house too.

Pretty simple all you have to do is just look at the game. Look good? Then get it, look bad? Then don't. All you need to do is be told by someone on the internet what games are similar to games you already enjoy. Then just look into it.

Also haha, you got fooled by Mass Effect Andromeda.

lol...sorry again but I'm 33, and can afford to buy $2000 worth of equipment I don't just use said equipment for ME:A that'd be a bit naive of me. That isn't what I was doing/saying at all, shame that's all you got from this, as everyone else seems to get the gist of what I'm aiming for.
And laughing at "misfortunes" of others isn't clever or smart, and...again I wasn't fooled, I enjoyed it for what it was...I waited for the patches etc so I'm quite happy

Edit: This isn't a post about Mass Effect/Bioware by the way...just because I used them as an example, my intention wasn't to turn this into them. I promise no more ME/Bioware examples :P