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Daily Poll 190: Do super easy modes make games worse?

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  • Daily Poll 190: Do super easy modes make games worse?

    Last Daily Poll was on Modern vs Retro. Check it out here: https://www.exclusivelygames.com/for...or-retro-games

    Super easy modes have been in games for a while. As I can see it's for people who can't play games but like the story and for game journos who can't play games because they spend too much time on twitter. I don't think it's a bad thing at all more options is always a good thing in my opinion. Some games are hard by design and the whole point is getting good at the game. No dev is better off for being forced to make a hard game by their design easy to pander to people who don't play it. On the other hand there's nothing to be gained by dismissing that some devs can make a game with scaleable difficulty with extremes. Nier Automata is a great example the easy mode gives you cheats and there's a one hit death mode; to siphon off the sayings of a certain someone.


    Check out the daily poll archive: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...eZa5loUQvE-SI/
    42
    All games with a super easy option are better
    9.52%
    4
    All games with a super easy option are worse
    4.76%
    2
    Difficulty options don't make games good or bad on their own
    61.90%
    26
    A super easy mode can make some games better
    14.29%
    6
    A super easy mode can make some games worse
    2.38%
    1
    I can't decide
    0%
    0
    Other opinion (reply below)
    7.14%
    3
    I'm crawling deeper and deeper into backlog hell. Also I stream on dlive: https://dlive.tv/jokerthefoolio

  • #2
    Super Easy modes even just existing greatly hurts the integrity od a game. Beating certain games use to be a achievement, no really anymore sigh.

    Comment


    • #3
      Depends. With something like Death Stranding, it's clearly a game with a lot of cinematic appeal and is spending up on elements that will both appeal to a film audience, and also likely be something that the people involved in it's creation would like to be appreciable as a performance piece, for their traditional audiences and peers. It's also a level of production that requires broad market appeal to ensure return on investment, and simultaneously esoteric enough to require casting a wide net in order to find as many oddball people as it can to find a receptive audience... especially if it's not going to be a microtransaction fest.

      However, outlets like IGN will try to go "death stranding did it why can't from software herp derp" - it wouldn't work for Sekiro, and never will.

      Comment


      • #4
        I know M$ makes controllers for players with physical limitations, so why not an easy mode for players with cerebral limitations (I believe that would cover many game journalists.).

        Personally, I would feel too much shame to ever play a game in super easy mode.




        "We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf."

        Comment


        • Zagreus_Veritas
          Zagreus_Veritas commented
          Editing a comment
          Some developer really should name their super easy mode "Games Journalist Mode" and then add verbal motivational content in the background.
          "Come on, you can do it!" "You ALMOST made that jump, you'll get it next time!"

          XD

        • Jokerthefoolio
          Jokerthefoolio commented
          Editing a comment
          Comparing people with mental disabilities to game journos is demeaning to the mentally disabled

        • twidget
          twidget commented
          Editing a comment
          My heartfelt apologies to those with mental disabilities.

      • #5
        As long as the player gets to choose the difficulty what's the problem?

        Comment


        • #6
          I don't care what difficulty modes a game has, as long it has one that fits my play style it's good (mostly Normal difficulty and sometimes super hard).

          It's not like you are forced to play on the super easy difficulty, you have the freedom of choice.
          ( ´・ω・`)_且~ Would you care to join me for a cup of tea?
          Sips Tea Majeeeeestically!

          Comment


          • #7
            If they're gonna go out of their way to make a super easy mode, they should be making harder modes for people who want them too.
            Check out my YouTube channel with silly Smash Bros. content: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCss...o9fW5snApff8YQ

            Comment


            • #8
              So long as there are difficulty modes for the people who want a hard playthrough it isn't a problem.

              More difficulty options make the game accessible to more people. It pisses me off when people whine that a game is accessible to anyone who wants to play it, as if offering an easy mode hurts anyone's gameplay - if you don't like it, don't choose it. Especially when we're talking about solo player games, where no one gets an 'upper hand' by playing on easy mode.

              As you get older, you'll find that a lot of health problems start making things harder for you - is it then fair to take away games from someone because they can't play at the level of a younger person? Also, some people enjoy the gameplay experience and the story but don't want the frustration of getting stuck in the die-reload-die cycle; some people don't have the free time to spend most of it replaying the same shit over and over. Not to mention people with anxiety issues - it's not their fault they suffer a health condition that makes such play harmful to them, yet there are those who'd punish them for it, as if life wasn't already punishing them.

              I simply cannot fathom the mentality of denying other people enjoyment when it would take nothing away from you. That is the way toddlers think and we are not toddlers.

              At the end of the day, it's a game and games are supposed to be fun - ever how you want to slice it, shaming and excluding people from a solo player experience is not fun for anyone but the assholes.

              Comment


              • Necromancerx69
                Necromancerx69 commented
                Editing a comment
                @Zoltor
                Oh please, the difficulty of getting stuck stopped being difficult the moment we got access to the internet or even Youtube.
                Again, if people are willing to get good, they will.

                @JackofTears
                Ouch, no need to get mad over a random comment, we all have different tastes in gaming and Zoltor is not being a bully just for sharing his opinion. Just how I shared my own opinion in the way that I do agree with what you said. Also wish you luck and get well.

              • JackofTears
                JackofTears commented
                Editing a comment
                Sorry Necro, but I have no tolerance for bullies who want to exclude people from games just so they can show off their e-peen. There are many people out there who suffer from conditions that limit their ability to play, that doesn't mean they should be excluded from the good games when the solution is something that takes little effort and will harm the game for nobody. That's like saying that we shouldn't print books in brail because if you're blind, you should just find another hobby and stop trying to read books. It's pathetic, it's selfish, and it's a mindset that only exists to deprive others of joy and that's unforgivable.

              • Dub-Z
                Dub-Z commented
                Editing a comment
                Depends. In something like Dark Souls, it fragments the player base for the seamless multiplayer concept (which scaredy cats already avoid and rage quit out of by disconnecting) and it also results in either less focus spent on fine tuning one difficulty, more time and resources spent on variable adjustment and testing, rather than on content creation and an efficient development/design process that's produced six masterpieces in 10 years. There's a legitimate creative and economic viability formula behind it. I recommend watching this GDC talk:

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vid5yZRKzs0

                One additional consequence it can have is that it can result in a fragmentation of experience, where say... reviewer/player A's impression is "wow what a masterpiece, so exhilarating" and reviewer/player B's experience on easy mode is "kinda dull and mindless... not much story, I didn't bother to finish" and ends up with less consolidated enthusiasm from a singular, dedicated fanbase who wants exactly the experience on offer. Resulting in a less passionate community that puts far less collaborative effort into everything that's sprung forth; such as lore videos, wiki guides, meta game, PvP channels, and straight up meme culture that fans really enjoy and understand. An audience who then doesn't show up for the sequels anymore, or a publisher who expected more broad appeal, put too much into marketing and now won't greenlight a sequel? Why sacrifice all that just to get people who never really were compelled enough by the game to bother reckoning with it?

            • #9
              Just a silly thought.
              If more diff modes (especially the easy ones) trigger some gamers, devs could offer 'hard-core' version, that would have only highest difficulty pre-selected and no other available.

              To compensate devs for this effort, such special editions would be, let's say, only offered during pre-purchase and optionally for higher price. Or make it an condition "if 10 K copies of hard-core verion are pre-purchased, we will sell it for the same price" or something.

              Comment


              • Zagreus_Veritas
                Zagreus_Veritas commented
                Editing a comment
                This is actually a great idea.
                I do not personally believe that it should be necessary, but for the people that absolutely do, it's a great idea.

              • Necromancerx69
                Necromancerx69 commented
                Editing a comment
                No, I don't want difficulty locked behind a paywall or a game separately (specially if it's the same product).
                Did you people forget about Metro Last Light: Ranger Mode? Again, just No.

              • Dub-Z
                Dub-Z commented
                Editing a comment
                If anything, sell easy mode because those people are the ones who apparently have better things to do than play video games, and more money than time.

            • #10
              Anyone who's played SOMA recognizes that sometimes the super-easy mode makes a game better simply because the difficulty of the gameplay is all built on badly designed challenges. A walking simulator where all enemies are bad becomes a much more tolerable atmospheric puzzle game when you choose the super easy mode where enemies don't exist. But of course this relieson the fact that the challenge actually is badly designed. I wouldn't want something like a super easy mode in for example Devil May Cry. That game is all about the gameplay and there would be no reason to play at all if the difficulty was set at super easy.

              Oh. I just realized. The reason why this topic exists is of all things something that's not a game. Death Stranding. Now that's a double-edged sword if I've ever seen one. On one hand, there has never been a Kojima g- ...product with any sort of decent interactivity because they're all just bad movies he sells to an audience that can be more easily duped into consuming bad products. The gameplay is just an excuse. On the other hand, Kojima storytelling and characters are so incredibly cringe that why would you want a specialized mode for only experiencing that aspect? -Wait what am I thinking? Of course... Normally you'd have to subject yourself to both the gameplay and story of a Kojima product. With a very easy mode you only need to suffer the story. So it might actually be an objective improvement. Just halfway though. The actual winning move is not to play.
              Last edited by Garrett; 09-09-2019, 08:51 AM.

              Comment


              • Zagreus_Veritas
                Zagreus_Veritas commented
                Editing a comment
                The only issue I had with SOMA was that it was kinda short, and that you get the monumental existence shattering plot twist spelled out to you Three times Before the end, and your character still acts like he had no idea. Other than that (And the way too long slog along the seafloor, you know which one I'm talking about, they count WAY too heavily on people being claustrophobic and afraid of the dark. It gets kinda boring.) it's a good game.

              • Zoltor
                Zoltor commented
                Editing a comment
                I haven't played that, but um yea, sounds like that's just a bad game, in which you probally shouldn't be playing it to beginwith lol

              • Garrett
                Garrett commented
                Editing a comment
                Zoltor It's not a bad game. It's like Silent Hill without the terrible combat, and when you choose the story only difficulty mode it won't even have the badly implemented enemies, just the puzzles and the atmosphere. Just recently a new game was released called Simulacrum which looks, plays and sounds exactly like Silent Hill 3, minus the boring combat. Some would say that's an improvement of the formula.

            • #11
              Difficulty options don't affect if a game is good or bad on their own, the problem is that oftentimes difficulty options in modern games are just number sliders by a different name, play on easy mode and enemy X gets -Y Health/armor and does Z less damage, this works if you're trying to make the game easier but it makes the game more frustrating than hard if you take it in the opposite direction.

              A better implementation of easy/hard mode is what several MMORPGs do where the harder difficulty bosses get additional mechanics. Even if most of those are designed to be discovered by trial and error.
              The yeeting of cats strictly prohibited in this area.

              Comment


              • Dub-Z
                Dub-Z commented
                Editing a comment
                Exactly. The problem. When difficulty accessibility and broad appeal become the industry-wide goal, scaleability of variables becomes the design blueprint, and so many games start ending up homogenous, RPG infused, or quantity over quality etc. All the things we complain about, at least in large scale/high cost game development come from this lowest common denominator target at the conceptual, moment of inception level.

                That's why I argue for games to have the right to be either or. At least for my part, it's nothing to do with elitism and accessibility, just creative integrity and the right to not appeal to everyone, and find an audience. Whether it's a walking sim, interactive movie, challenging action adventure or stressful horror game. The same applies to thematic concepts too... not everything is going to be lighthearted and easy to digest, and not everything is going to be dense, verbose and thought provoking. Trying to be neither for the sake of broadest appeal, results in experiences that are just going through the motions of gameplay. Something many might enjoy, but few people ever really love.

            • #12
              Originally posted by Zagreus_Veritas View Post
              Difficulty options don't affect if a game is good or bad on their own, the problem is that oftentimes difficulty options in modern games are just number sliders by a different name, play on easy mode and enemy X gets -Y Health/armor and does Z less damage, this works if you're trying to make the game easier but it makes the game more frustrating than hard if you take it in the opposite direction.

              A better implementation of easy/hard mode is what several MMORPGs do where the harder difficulty bosses get additional mechanics. Even if most of those are designed to be discovered by trial and error.
              Yea sigh, that as well. I pointed out how such leads to franchises getting gradually easier overall, but yea that's another outcome that's pretty common as well(It doesn't lead to the higher difficulty modes being difficult, as much as it leads to the higher difficulty modes being annoying).
              Last edited by Zoltor; 09-09-2019, 12:00 PM.

              Comment


              • Zagreus_Veritas
                Zagreus_Veritas commented
                Editing a comment
                The early implementations of Reaper enemies in ME2 come to mind, they start out as bullet sponges on normal and by the time you get to the Derelict on any of the harder modes they take ten sniper rifle shots to the head to die.

              • Zoltor
                Zoltor commented
                Editing a comment
                It's been ages since I played that, but yea that seems familiar.

            • #13
              No because there's an amazing thing common to all the games that have this feature and that is playing in another difficulty

              And honestly super easy mode is usually as stupid as hard modes that add nothing besides inflated stats (like gow 2018 which was clearly not meant to be played in gmgow)

              Comment


              • Dub-Z
                Dub-Z commented
                Editing a comment
                That's the thing. A game design that's so easily scaleable with damage variables is usually either a brainless hot-knife-through-butter fest on easy, full of strange difficulty spikes and valleys on normal, and then just damage sponges and glass-cannon HP on hard. Or something similar depending on the genre.

              • Magvel
                Magvel commented
                Editing a comment
                Hence why I don't like most hard modes in games, increasing the tedium doesn't challenge my ability to play the game.

              • Dub-Z
                Dub-Z commented
                Editing a comment
                Yeah, God of War 2018 was a perfect example. That game got all the time and money in the world, and even they couldn't do difficulty options right. It's also telling that the game has a slight RPG bend compared to the previous entries.... a fully malleable foundation can be an unstable one. Jack of all trades, master of none.

            • #14
              There isn't anything wrong with a game having an Easy difficulty if it fits the design. A game like Sekiro would never be good with an Easy mode since the game revolves around learning from defeat and getting better. A game that relies more on the narrative probably wouldn't be affected.
              "I game, therefore I am." - Abraham Lincoln

              Comment


              • #15
                All gams are better if include difficulty options to suit different crowds. For instance you have games like Celeste that is a really hard platformer (with extra content if you want it to be harder and harder each time you progress) but also give you the opportunity of an extra jump or not getting tired so fast while climbing if you feel you're not having fun. (I did not do it and finish B-sides).
                On the other hand you have a game like astral chain where I played it in casual mode (btw easy and normal as above it has the platinum standard difficulty) because I just don't enjoy the gameplay of platinum games in its standard and I wouldn't play the game otherwise (actually I had a lot of fun).

                That is the main reason why lower difficulty is important. Games are made to be FUN. If you like to be challenged good for you but don't crap on others. That just shows the moron you are.
                Last edited by Balta666; 09-09-2019, 01:06 PM.

                Comment


                • Dub-Z
                  Dub-Z commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Celeste is a great game, that I think really suits what they did and does it well. However, I do remember the devs saying around release that collecting all the strawberries did nothing and "accessibility" proponents saying that was great. (I put accessibility in air quotes only because I don't think the media and for-hire-consultant extortion racket is the same as actual accessibility issues, design theory and creative sincerity.)

                  I think an extra level for getting all the strawberries would have been nice. That's what Klonoa did on PS1. However, the game already had it's alternate challenge levels, and the cake was a nice touch.
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