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Daily Poll 243: Is Kojima a good developer?

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  • Daily Poll 243: Is Kojima a good developer?

    Last Daily Poll was on Critic vs Audience reviews: Check out the Daily Poll Archive: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing


    Death Stranding is out in a bit over 2 days and I'm really excited for it. I know Kojima is a really divisive figure in gaming so making a poll about makes sense. Thanks to Thomas_JCG for the topic and the constructive criticism on my polls. Death Stranding's reviews have been an interesting situation with a lot of people being divided and his past games have aspects that people either love or hate. What do you think about the man if you even care at all?

    Also here's another hint about the secret song. It has to do with the person or people who wrote the song: Twickenham


    Check out the Daily Poll Archive: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

    32
    Kojima is a perfect developer
    9.38%
    3
    Kojima is a good developer
    37.50%
    12
    Kojima is neither bad or good as a developer
    12.50%
    4
    Kojima is a bad developer
    3.13%
    1
    Kojima is the worst developer
    0%
    0
    Kojima should make movies instead of games
    15.63%
    5
    I don't care
    9.38%
    3
    Other Opinion (reply below)
    12.50%
    4
    Last edited by Jokerthefoolio; 11-05-2019, 08:18 PM.
    I'm crawling deeper and deeper into backlog hell. Also I stream on dlive: https://dlive.tv/jokerthefoolio

  • #2
    While I do enjoy Kojima works, I don't think he is perfect (no human mortal is perfect).

    I only think he is good.
    ( ´・ω・`)_且~ Would you care to join me for a cup of tea?
    Sips Tea Majeeeeestically!

    Comment


    • #3
      I have no opinion on him simply because I have never played any of his games. Not a single one. I can't tell you if he's a good or bad developer.

      Comment


      • #4
        Kojima is a talentless ideas-man carried by competent and semi-competent actual developers and actual writers. Some people have said that he's the Anti-Warren-Spector. While Warren is actually talented he insists on downplaying his role in every project he takes part in and highlights the talents of everyone around him, Kojima is a worthless hack who doesn't contribute shit and does everything he can to comprise the credits of "games" he's affiliated with of as many entries of his own name as possible. The only reason he got into gaming was because of how much lower the bar of storytelling and creativity was for games and how he just couldn't make it in the real film industry. He should just make a movie instead of pretending that he's part of the production of videogames. And I said "a movie" -singular because I hope he'd get the clue once his drivel get slammed by critics and he retires. Into obscurity, or to that forest Logan Paul visited.

        Why, despite all these high-profile actresses he's been bribing to pretend to enjoy his company while he's taking selfies with them, why has he not been one of the men who's been #metoo'd? Fuck.

        Comment


        • MadMummy76
          MadMummy76 commented
          Editing a comment
          I agree that he is selfish, self infatuated, and arrogant. I also agree that his writing style got success because the bar was set so low when he started producing games.

          But I'd never wish getting metooed on anyone. As for "models" they enjoy being around money, not the person who has the money, so I kind of don't give a damn about women like that.

        • Dub-Z
          Dub-Z commented
          Editing a comment
          This post is historically ignorant. Gaming in the mid to late 90's already had Sierra games and Lucasarts for wit, Obsidian and Bioware found their footing, the early Legacy of Kain titles saw Amy Hennig emerge, and Japanese RPG's were putting out stuff like Xenogears and FF Tactics. There was absolutely competition and standards.The praise continued on into the 2000's.

          Considering God of War 2018 basically stole the ending of Soul Reaver, and is praised to no end by bitter, wanna be writers at IGN just because it emasculated Kratos, misremembered his history and saddled him with a boy wonder sidekick like it's a 1950's Batman comic... I'd say standards were higher back then. The era certainly hasn't been all that eclipsed by the diet Joss Whedon and dollar store Star Trek standards of today.

          Also, every single person in the gaming industry has other passions and interests that influence their work. The whole field is filled to the brim with artists of all kinds. The first 30 years of gaming history was created by people who weren't born into a game design career path, since that didn't exist in academia until the mid 2000's. Not even Myamoto knew he wanted to be a game developer.

      • #5
        Kojima is a producer afaik, not a developer. He doesn't actually code games, like Carmack, does he?
        Click here for all my game reviews. | Click here for my PC hardware history from 1991
        Games purchased on EGS: 0 | Free games redeemed on EGS: 0

        Comment


        • Dub-Z
          Dub-Z commented
          Editing a comment
          It's only in the mid 80's that he was coding illiterate. He learned after that because he was tired of delegating ideas that he couldn't realize himself, wanted to make his own engines to have more control and not be rebuffed so easily by his bosses after his 2nd game was cancelled. He still has his hands in it, even if he's delegating to better coders and not being only a dedicated code monkey. He carried this initiative all the way through to the Fox Engine before leaving Konami.

          He may not be a Carmack, or even an Iwata, but he clearly has a 30,000 foot view and first hand understanding of the entire development process. This post MGS4 GDC talk is a great example. https://youtu.be/7Pq1Jyr6ffU

      • #6
        Originally posted by Latham View Post
        I have no opinion on him simply because I have never played any of his games. Not a single one. I can't tell you if he's a good or bad developer.
        This......
        Exclusively Games, the Fallout 76 of game forums.

        Steam: old_Navy_twidget

        Comment


        • #7
          As far as producing games and writing stories I Think he takes the mickey out of gamers. It seems to me he's deliberately putting eccentric and unnecessary mechanics in his games, to have a laugh at how the followers gobble it up. And for some reason they love it. "Oh it's the kojima style"

          Well the kojima style is like modern art, everyone talks about it at high end dinner parties like they love it, but it is just a shitsmear on a canvas. To me it looks vulgar compared to the art from the Da Vincies of game production.

          If he attached his name to a turd in a jar his cult would still say it's the best thing since sliced bread.
          Click here for all my game reviews. | Click here for my PC hardware history from 1991
          Games purchased on EGS: 0 | Free games redeemed on EGS: 0

          Comment


          • Dub-Z
            Dub-Z commented
            Editing a comment
            Why are you and Garret always talking about human shit? Very scatalogical.

            I remember you trying to call someone here an idiot for not liking Horizon Zero Dawn from Guerilla Games, because you thought it was a great game.

            Funny how you have zero appreciation for Kojima, but when Sony sent him around the world to meet their different studio teams, Guerilla Games just handed the engine source code to him as a gesture of respect and confidence.

            All those industry professional peers who gave him a standing ovation at the game awards. Is that the cult you're talking about? Maybe they see something you don't.
            Last edited by Dub-Z; 11-06-2019, 04:30 AM.

          • MadMummy76
            MadMummy76 commented
            Editing a comment
            Dub-Z
            I hate to break it to you, but studio heads and employees of guerlilla games aren't larger than life either. They are just as human as anyone else, and they can just as easily fall victim to cult mentality.

            So them seeing anything in Kojima means equal amounts to me as you seeing something in him. I never judge the messenger, I judge the message. And it seems the reviews of Death Stranding are proving me right and not the cult, because it seems to be what I expected it to be, and what his previous game was except nobody wanted to see it then cause solid snake.

            BTW it says everything that you don't even try to deny that he puts uneccessary and eccentric things in his games. I mean if anyone else implemented pissing while standing in a game, they would not be praised they would be ridiculed and probably be called a misogynist these days. That's what I'm referring to when I say cult.
            Last edited by MadMummy76; 11-06-2019, 07:02 AM.

          • Dub-Z
            Dub-Z commented
            Editing a comment
            Oh, so you're the real arbiter with great taste and perception, but the people who make the games you like don't know good from bad, and don't have enough insight into game development to have a well reasoned appraisal of Kojima as a game developer? That's a laugh if I ever heard one.

            Those studio heads and employees worked their way to the position they're in, and that demonstrates experience with which to judge. The fact they don't see Kojima as someone to envy and resent says a lot about how appreciable his body of work and qualifications are to his peers. If the guy was a hack, they'd see it the way a good barber sees a bad haircut, and there would be no love.

            "reviews" huh? You mean the ones where a couple websites trashed it for clout and clicks, the same cretins that gave Mass Effect Andromeda a great score and who spend their time professionally concern trolling, saying Sekiro needs an easy mode, and that gamers are toxic? That's some great back up you got there.

            I wanted to focus on your perspective on developers, but there's nothing unnecessary about experimentation with interactivity and immersion. You try things in games, see what sticks. Some become novelties, some become standard. That's why life sim aspects of Shenmue transcended all the way into Red Dead 2 long after GTA3 had decided they didn't need you to be able to look in drawers, work a job, play an arcade game etc.

            Developers can and should also express themselves in the medium. This can be done with mechanics and systems, not just literary, visual and cinematic arts. This type of expression tends to happen in games which aren't based on mundane vehicle or profession simulations, sports likeness franchises, blank slate create-a-characters, faceless first person eyeballs, and/or generic soldiers.

            What? You don't like knocking on posters and discovering easter eggs? You don't like catching cold? You don't like increasing your stamina? You don't like Psycho Mantis reading your memory card? You don't like spinning Snake to get sick? You don't like distracting guards with porno mags? Get all this "unnecessary" personality out of my games. Give me 100% flavorless Eurotruck Simulator amirite?

            Lastly, I don't know what planet you live on where Kojima hasn't repeatedly been called a misogynist for the last 6 or 7 years by the only real cult in gaming. It isn't his fandom that's kept that at bay, it's being in Japan, out of western games media reach. The editorial push at sites like IGN to change the narrative around Kojima originates on reset and goes all the way back to gaf, where people who problematize everything extort their way into outside consultant positions.
            Last edited by Dub-Z; 11-06-2019, 11:59 AM.

        • #8
          I don't care about kojima.
          I don't consider any of his games to be amazing, I find his games to be missable.

          Sadly some of the people on YouTube clearly think of him as God and would gladly give him a thorough rimming.

          Comment


          • #9
            He has qualities for sure but it appears to me that he needs someone beside him to tell him when something is just stupid and that the direction should be different. I am not sure he will ever really get a place in Hollywood as he wants as he is kind of too crazy to get a proper budget

            Comment


            • #10
              He's the Stanley Kubrick of video games, aka a great director whose writing skills are poor and thus needs a co-writer, the main difference being that Kubrick was aware of this while Kojima isn't.

              Originally posted by Garrett View Post
              Why, despite all these high-profile actresses he's been bribing to pretend to enjoy his company while he's taking selfies with them, why has he not been one of the men who's been #metoo'd? Fuck.
              I think even the biggest idiots of this forum have enough self-restraint to not wish for someone to get his life permanently fucked because they don't like that person's video games and considering how low I think of them that's saying a lot.

              Comment


              • Dub-Z
                Dub-Z commented
                Editing a comment
                He usually does have co-writers. They seem like they're probably Ghost In the Shell, Neon Genesis types of people, though. Kojima comes from a time where adding greater context and premises to games was the goal, but you couldn't do much with performance capture and camera work to "show don't tell" as per cinematic ideals. So exposition and access to optional, encylopedic information about technology, fire arms, geopolitics etc was a worldbuilding option.

                He also came from an era where the primary use of CD Rom as a new technology, meant space for audio files on games that would otherwise still be under 50mb. So what would you do with that extra space and hifi sound spec? Voice actors, dialogue and music. Lots of it. It's what elevated something like Snatcher.

                As the medium grew technologically and artistically, his penchant for exposition was no longer necessary, and that's why MGSV is more walkie than talkie. But right as Naughty Dog was about to change the industry with Uncharted 2, he was releasing MGS4, the last of it's kind, still stuck in the old ways. One foot in the grave and full of stuff he never really wanted to explain.

                I enjoy Naughty Dog games a lot but that kind of ultra palatable prime time TV writing, MCU wise cracking, and Steven Spielberg style mass appeal just doesn't resonate with me the way more esoteric stuff does. The less mainstream and conventional Kubrick was, the better imo, and what set him apart will always be his 'Stephen King is for normies' sensibilities.

              • Magvel
                Magvel commented
                Editing a comment
                He had one named Tomokazu Fukushima who left Kojima after MGS3 and afaik he didn't have one for MGS4 and 5.

                Granted I don't know anything about Snatcher or Policenauts but for MGS it's hard to not make the link between Fukushima leaving and the dip in quality from 3 to 4 in the writing department.

              • Dub-Z
                Dub-Z commented
                Editing a comment
                I love V and don't really like 4 that much. It's probably my least favorite one, but I don't hate it. There's a very interesting breakdown of what MGS4 was trying to do, that never really got any circulation: http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS4/9su.htm

                Honestly, I have trouble revisiting the older entries because I don't have the patience to relearn the archaic controls and the exposition dumps are just too much, even though I want to re-experience those great story moments with The Boss and Ocelot in MGS3, the Metal Gear kaiju fight in MGS4, and the simulation going haywire in MGS2.

                If I could ever focus my mind enough, I'd love to do a superbunnyhop style treatment of MGSV, but it's just not my forte.

            • #11
              Thanks, though I still think you should use narrow choices more. Also, as MadMumy76 pointed, he isn't a developer.
              Anyway, enough of "constructive criticism".

              Kojima is a good producer. He is full of interesting ideas and likes to push boundaries, which are essential traits to any producer. His games are creative, intricate and rich in details, and I'm legitimately sad for everyone who brushes them off as nothing but him being pretentious. Are we striving for mediocrity now?
              Naturally, sometimes things don't pay off as well as he intended, and that's fine, no one is perfect but me.


              Cue Magvel using the inflated head picture.
              "Without Games, Life would be a Mistake" - All of the Founding Fathers, in unison.

              Comment


              • Dub-Z
                Dub-Z commented
                Editing a comment
                Yeah. It blows my mind that people actually want homogenous, "design by comittee" games that are completely stripped of directorial idiosyncrasies. That people are advocating for Kojima to have a Konami keep him in check blows my mind.

                They kept him on Metal Gear for decades when he wanted to branch out and make stuff like Zone of the Enders and Boktai. Without Kojima, you get Metal Gear Survive, but somehow we're in Bizarro world where the type of games media personalities who do weekly Destiny and Division podcasts, are convincing their readers that Konami was the real geniuses.

                Or that Sony should have kept him in check. Yeah, the same Sony that passed on publishing Demon's Souls and then had to beg them to come back and make Bloodborne to get the PS4 through its first two years of not having games. I'll take visionary direction over executive vision any day of the week.

            • #12
              He and his teams have made great games for decades and have had a profound effect on the medium. He's your favorite developer's favorite developer.

              These are facts.

              Comment


              • #13
                Never played any of his games. Don't care.

                Comment


                • #14
                  He is a good producer, but that's about it. Most of his games have great intros or endings, or great moments in them that are few and far between, and those moments make his games worth playing. For example, I will probably never experience a better intro to a game than MGSV, but as we all know, the rest of the game is riddled with problems, and would have been a better experience overall if it had kept the tone of the intro, instead of devolving into an open world that doesn't have enough to do in it. That's how Kojima games are.

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    I don't understand why some people call his games intricate and creative. In my experience they're shallow thoughtless simplistic excuses to fill time between cringeworthy cutscenes consisting entirely out of embarrassing character designs engaging in verbal exchanges written by people who have never heard humans talk. And the rest is single-use gimmicks specifically designed so that an audience the game correctly assumes to be idiots would drop their jaws when they think they're seeing originality or depth.
                    Take Metal Gear Solid for example. There's a part where an enemy can see your footprints in the snow. One part, and that feature of the AI doesn't exist for the NPCs for the rest of the game. There's a part where you have to fake your death using a visible pool of fake blood. In a game where nothing leaves blood pools and NPCs are incapable of detecting said blood. You pick up anti-tremble medicine so your sniper scope won't move so much in a boss fight, but that's the only part of the game where sniping happens. In MGS2 there's a whiskey glass with ice cubes floating in it and the ice melts and disappears over time, but the game has no temperature or buoancy programmed in. These are not mechanics. The games are insultingly simplistic, and they get applauded because of pointless singular details. It's like playing Max Payne and ignoring the entire implementation of ballistics and bullet time but praising it for the fact that you can shoot and destroy a speaker playing elevator music and Max is scripted to exclaim relief.

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                    • twidget
                      twidget commented
                      Editing a comment

                    • Dub-Z
                      Dub-Z commented
                      Editing a comment
                      The only strawman here is your misrepresentation of the Metal Gear series as some kind of David Cage interactive movie game.

                    • Thomas_JCG
                      Thomas_JCG commented
                      Editing a comment
                      "No aspect of the gameplay has any depth", shows just how much you know.
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