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Super Smash: It’s Time for Melee Players to Move On

Super Smash Bros. Melee released in late 2001, and is considered to be one of the greatest games ever released for the Nintendo Gamecube, a sentiment that I would personally agree with. Melee is a fantastic game all around, and it’s no surprise that it is as beloved as it is. Had it not been as successful as it was, it’s very possible that the Super Smash Bros. series could have ended there, but due to high sales figures and an incredibly passionate community, the series has continued to this day.

In 2008, Nintendo released the sequel to Melee, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, followed by Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U in 2014, and most recently, 2018’s Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Though each game in the series has had its own stretch of popularity, one of these games has stood out among the rest of them, with a community more passionate than any other entry. That game of course is Melee, which despite being old enough to drive now, still remains just as popular as it was back in the day.

And I think it’s about time that everyone moved on from Melee.

Make no mistake–I think Melee is a great game–I grew up playing it, and it was literally the entire reason I had initially bought a Gamecube back in the day. But it’s time to move on, folks. I don’t think that people should just stop playing it entirely, but I do think that it’s time for the Melee super-fans to stop acting like Melee is the only Smash game that matters, and stop insisting that the pro gaming community bend over backwards to accommodate them playing an 18 year old game, which has had, in my opinion, definitively better games released in its series since then.

At a competitive level, Melee is a very deep game with tons of complex, high-level mechanics, most of which involve abusing glitches that probably would have been patched out as soon as they were discovered, had the Gamecube had any method to patch games. Because only certain characters can take advantage of these glitches to their fullest extent, competitive Melee has very few characters being used in tournament matches. You’ll generally see the same 3-6 or so characters, because the gap between the upper tiers and the lower tiers is so huge, and in my opinion, this has caused the game to become stagnant.

Most of the characters aren’t used, most of the stages are banned, and in the end, most matches are just the same thing over and over. The game has basically been solved in terms of mechanics, combos and whatnot, so you rarely, if ever, see anything surprising unless a player makes a mistake. Does this make the game bad? Of course not. But it does make it incredibly boring to watch.

But unfortunately, the biggest problem isn’t the game itself, but the community. Perhaps due in part to Super Smash Bros. Brawl being not nearly as good as its predecessor, Melee’s competitive community continued on even after its sequel’s release. In fact, Melee’s competitive community even went so far as to create a mod for Brawl called Project M that existed for no other purpose than to gut any of the undesirable mechanics from Brawl and make the game play as close to Melee as possible. The sequel was too different for them, so they hacked the game to make it more like the one they already liked, on top of still playing the one they actually liked in the first place. Though of course, even though Project M was designed to be Melee 2, it was never quite as popular as Melee itself was.

While the rest of the competitive gaming community at this point was moving on to new games on new consoles, the Melee community insisted that their game was here to stay, and they needed special accomodations for their game. Even though every other competitive game had moved on to HD consoles and HDTV displays for their tournaments, Melee players insisted on only playing on CRT TVs because the miniscule input lag on HDTVs was completely unacceptable for them, even though every other pro gaming scene just dealt with it. So tournament organizers were forced to lug around big ol’ CRTs just for the Melee community, and due to the declining need for CRTs in today’s high-definition world, it can occasionally be hard for them to find TVs that suit the Melee community’s precise demands.

I think that word describes the Melee community’s problem perfectly– demands. The Melee community demands that all of their needs be followed exactly. Things must be done a certain way, and anything else is not acceptable. Everything must be played on CRT TVs. Only Gamecube controllers are allowed. Only certain stages are allowed. Smash games other than Melee should not be considered to be as competitively serious as Melee, and so on. This is all despite the fact that most of the fighting game community as a whole does not respect nor consider Smash to be a fighting game at all (for the record, I do), and many major figures in the fighting game community are kind of sick of the childish behavior of the Melee community throwing around demands as if they were more important than anyone else in the competitive gaming community.

But I think the biggest question here is “Why?” Why is everyone so stuck on Melee in the first place? Why are they all stuck on an 18 year old game that was designed to be silly random fun, instead of moving on to games like Super Smash Bros. 4 and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, which were designed partially with a competitive scene in mind and are actually considered to be really good? Other games that are played at competitive level typically move on to the newest game as long as the game isn’t a total mess (in most cases…) but Melee players seem to still demand to be center stage, and often complain when they aren’t invited to the big name tournaments anymore.

When the games were being announced for Evo 2019,  the biggest fighting game tournament in the world, Melee found itself not being part of the main lineup of games. This caused, in my opinion, an unreasonable amount of outrage from the Melee community. There were even calls to have Super Smash Bros. Ultimate removed from the lineup and replaced with Melee because it wasn’t as “serious” as Melee. This is an 18 year old game. Quite frankly, they’re lucky that they even managed to be at Evo last year. They’re lucky that people are still around running major tournaments for the game at all! Sure, there’s still tournaments around for lots of old games–there are even tournaments for games like Street Fighter II and Darkstalkers 3 happening now and then, but demanding that an 18 year old game be played on the main stage in prime time at Evo is the very definition of entitled, in my opinion.

And the sad part about the whole thing is that Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is a legitimately good game. The Melee community–the Smash old guard, are demanding that Ultimate be thrown under the bus in favor of their game, and it’s pretty much entirely because it isn’t exactly like Melee. Like, if you want to argue that some newer versions of popular fighting games aren’t worthy to have replaced the previous game at Evo (such as Street Fighter V or BlazBlue Cross Tag Battle, in my opinion), then you’d better be sure that the game you’re complaining about actually has something wrong with it, unlike Ultimate which is arguably a better game mechanically than Melee.

Again, this isn’t saying that people should just stop playing Melee or having tournaments for it at all. But what I’m saying is that the Melee community needs to learn to understand that the fighting game community does not revolve around them – and it never has, despite what they would like to believe. People are going to want to move on to newer and better games, and Melee is not some objectively definitive Smash game that beats all others in every way. The game is dated. It’s had its day in the sun, and it’s time to move on. They need to stop demanding that they be included in major tournaments, and stop acting like entitled children when they’re not invited.

And hey, Melee players, look on the bright side! Ultimate is great! If you’d actually put Melee down for a moment and give it a shot, you might actually be surprisingly pleased with it! Besides, you can’t play Melee forever anyway–there are only so many working CRT TVs left in the world!

 

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  1. This article feels more than a little bit dismissive. The thing is, Melee players have put a lot of time into the newer entries, many of the top professionals in Brawl, Sm4sh and Ultimate are Melee veterans (many of whom play multiple games). Project M didn’t gut mechanics so much as it added back old mechanics and brought in new ones. Somehow I doubt people missed random tripping and S tier Meta Knight. The mod added new stages and balanced the cast much better than any of the actual games. Dismissing Project M as nothing more than a “hack to make the game Melee” disregards the passion and work that the PMDT poured into the mod.

    Melee still finds itself at big name tournaments because it brings in the ticket sales and viewers, which is why people were frustrated when it was removed from Evo’s lineup. Melee doesn’t have all of it’s staying power because “people can’t just move on”, there are still newcomers picking up the game and giving it a shot competitively. Recently there have been huge upsets at major tournaments, newcomers giving the old guard a run for their money quite consistently. But at the end of the day, Melee and Project M exist because the series has moved in another direction. Yes Smash 4 and Ultimate are better than Brawl, but they still lack much of what made Melee so special.

    Anyway, we can agree to disagree, the article brought up some decent points (the community’s toxicity and the lack of CRTs for example), but I feel like overall it’s a swing and a miss.

  2. Brult Brultesen on September 9, 2019 at 12:08 pm said

    This “article” is a fucking trainwreck.

  3. This article has a clear brult-agenda lol.
    Not only are you cherrypicking EVO as “Melee players nagging TO’s to hold
    Melee tournaments”, but youre clearly lacking proper knowledge about Melee to speak on the subject.

    The major smashtounrmanets around the globe are mostly held by Melee players, we are accommodate places for Ultimate to foster and grow.
    Genesis – Melee TO
    The Big House – Melee TO
    Shine – Melee TO
    There are too many to count.

    The Gamecube sends a analog video signal which inherentaly becomes insanly laggy on modern televisions, so CRTs are required to play properly. If we didnt have to use them we wouldnt.

    To say that competetive Melee uses around 3-6 characters is incredebly dishonest when the top 10 Melee players in the world right now uses 8 different characters. And that is not including other very popular character choices common in the top 100 level like Peach and Luigi.

    To claim high-level Melee consist of glitch abusing is straight up wrong, you don’t even come with any examples. No, wavedashing is not a glitch.

    Very dissapointed in the people who decided this was okay to post

  4. Sigilstone17 on September 9, 2019 at 2:07 pm said

    Based on the butthurt fanboys commenting: I think EG should hire Yahtzee Croshaw

  5. They’re still better then the Mario Kart 64 “purists.”
    I was casting a Double Dash tournament back in the day, and I got complaints from them not only for doing an “inferior” Mario Kart game, but for not knowing who several of them were. As if their mastery of an ancient game through exploits meant they should be household names or something.
    I’m not kidding, I got several “don’t you know who I am” from non pro gamers. I don’t even know who pro gamers are.

  6. Melee has survived on the strength of community support, it’s never gotten any help from Nintendo (and Nintendo actively killed PM by getting it banned from Twitch, not allowing it at Nintendo-sponsored tournaments). I don’t watch it anymore either but you act like a community keeping a game alive for 18 years is a bad thing; it’s impressive and I respect it. Melee only continues to be played because people want to play it. There’s no corporate entity forcing it on us. This article comes off as “stop liking things I don’t like”.

  7. Reading this article and the comments was quite interesting. I do not really keep up with competitive video games; I much prefer to play rather than watch. Any Smash title for me would just be something to play with friends when they visit. That being said, I cannot condone any sort of toxicity aimed at people solely due to the entertainment they enjoy. I still play my GameCube today and I love may games for it, but I do not begrudge anyone who likes the newer stuff even if I do not like the game as much. I have some of the newer stuff, too, quite frankly.

    On the other hand, I would not discourage people from playing or simply enjoying the games they love. I never will give up my retro stuff, even if it is outdated, and all the better that people have found ways to make them work and better than ever to this date. As long as the fans of the newer games are not inconvenienced and Meelee can have its own stuff, I do not really see the problem with them coexisting.

  8. This is comically toxic journalism. You should be ashamed that you are given a platform and that this is how you use it.

    • Doctor Diddler on September 12, 2019 at 4:43 pm said

      This is an opinion piece. He says as much. This is his opinion. You’re welcome to disagree, but there’s no reason for him to be ashamed of holding this as an opinion.

      • Bruhmoment9338 on September 13, 2019 at 1:05 am said

        This may be an opinion piece but it’s based on information and claims that don’t make sense.

        “Same 3-6 characters” even though it’s closer to double that.

        “Only gamecube controllers” not sure what else you’d play with unless you’re using the Donkey Kong Bongo’s or the microphone that came with Mario Party.

        “Only certain stages” that’s because a standard needs to be set and followed, or else we’d be playing on Poké Float and you’d be relying on luck more than skill.

        “Even though every other game has moved onto HD displays” Perhaps because the new fighting games were designed for those displays, unlike melee which was designed for CRT’s.

        And my favourite contradiction from this article.

        “And I think it’s about time everyone moves on from melee” and “This isn’t saying people should stop playing melee and having tournaments for it at all.”

        This article is a mess of contradictions and baseless and incorrect claims. Less of an opinion piece and more like using your outlet as a journalist to try and get people to stop playing a game for no reason.

      • There is when the reasons listed aren’t truthful. Had he exclusively used honest reasons, I would understand. This is lame ass journalism and I tried to come at it from a neutral perspective.

  9. I’m a passive melee player, really enjoy ultimate (and project m), but the other smash titles were not designed well.

    This article ironically showcases the childish anti-fandom behavior he so states of melee players. Crt is a legitimate issue to competitive gaming, not a childish demand. If anything it is more on Nintendo for not creating an hd remake which should be a no-brainer with the cult following it has.

    Enjoyed the biased and out of touch article though. Talking about melee having a small list of viable charterers, but then compares to brawl… metaknight much? That was a great laugh I needed, thanks.

    • I was going to respond angrily, saying how off-base, out touch, and completely tone-deaf this whole article is. But I read a few comments, and it seems those points have already been made. Look, people will enjoy whatever games they want to play, and that’s good, be it Melee, Ultimate, or whatever else they choose. I don’t think it’s a journalist’s place to tell a community to “move on” from what the community is formed around in the first place (honestly, I don’t think it’s anyone’s place to say that). Just write about what you know about from now on, because it doesn’t seem like you did so with this article.

  10. Personally, I have nothing against Melee as a game, but rather the community of purists that swear by it and think that no other smash game can come close to it’s level of appeal and excitement. I think every smash game is special (Yes, even Brawl) and appeals to different people.

    That being said: I don’t think Melee fans need to “move on” from their game, but just understand that it’s not the “best” game in the eyes of the masses.

    • So do you have numbers verifying how many more people like ultimate and sm4sh than melee? The competitive community surrounding melee created the competitive scene around sm4sh and ultimate and are a large portion of the viewership during tournaments. Just because you don’t like the melee community doesn’t mean they aren’t out there watching ultimate, playing ultimate, and enjoying it! Just because melee fans decide to keep playing melee (because of the preference of game mechanics & the feel of the game or whatever reasons) doesn’t mean they absolutely have ultimate. They just have different preferences.

      Kinda obnoxious that we have melee elitists here saying this article is hot garbage though. There’s a way to handle every situation, and just saying the author is dumb is ineffective and childish. While I don’t agree with anything the author said, I decide to continue having healthy conversation instead of pointing fingers and calling people names.

      I also say this for the ultimate community, you don’t get to decide when melee dies, if it ever happens. Don’t try and be in charge of the “Smash Community” just because you have the newest game. There is a lot you could learn from the time and dedication many people put into melee.

      • Lol melee elitists?

        This article is garbage.

        Contradictions and BS. Clear lack of research in many areas.

        If your job is to write an article do a good job. Actually do research. Don’t defend someone who posts this garbage article rofl.

  11. DragonSoul(PACE) on September 9, 2019 at 8:02 pm said

    This article sounds like it was written by someone who’s “research” consisted of reading comments on r/smash. I definitely won’t be visiting this site again unless it starts hiring less incompetent writers.

  12. “Incredibly boring to watch”
    There’s no way you’ve actually watched melee. You just watched “melee is broken” 1 and 2 and took it seriously. Little if any of melee jank actually affects the game.

    Also, 2019 has seen more victories from mid tier characters than any other year. Melee has consistently evolved every year, and mid/low tiers are just now catching up to high tiers because of how ridiculously deep and unexplored the game is. Saying that it’s just a bunch of glitches makes the game sound like it’s broken and unfair. Every character benefits from these mechanics, and they’re the reason melee has evolved over 18 years whereas other smash games comparatively have stayed the same.

    Lastly, I pretty much only see people saying melee players are toxic and supremacist, and I pretty much never see them actively attack others like non-melee players do to them. Twitch chat gets flooded with “chat is toxic, melee must be starting soon” before melee events, I never see the inverse. You saying that other games have been “deemed better” is your opinion. Saying melee players should move on from something they enjoy to something you enjoy is the exact issue you think melee players have

  13. Andrew French on September 9, 2019 at 9:01 pm said

    “Melee players insisted on only playing on CRT TVs because the miniscule input lag on HDTVs was completely unacceptable for them, even though every other pro gaming scene just dealt with it.”

    This sentence alone invalidated your whole article. You clearly don’t understand how this stuff works, and I have a hard time believe you’ve played anything at a competitive level.

  14. Agreed. And wear some deodorant.

  15. Out of the 8 games at EVO last year, Melee was second in viewership (with a 2 PM time slot, its very possible it would be #1 at prime time.) It would be like saying ESPN stopped airing baseball and replaced it with bochi ball and when the baseball fans complained your response would be “demanding that an 150 year old game be played on the main stage in prime time is the very definition of entitled, in my opinion.”

    In general the whole article is just a hit piece anyways. No resemblance of decent journalism anywhere to be found. I suppose it wasn’t suppose to be but why tell others what to like and not like. The whole premise of “you people should do / think this…” is just the foundation of almost any bigoted or ignorant view.

  16. I hope ya’ll realize you’re just proving my point.

    • When the brulter becomes the brultee on September 9, 2019 at 9:54 pm said

      Is this real omfg

      • Type text here…Yes it is, and he is right. You people aren’t trying to have a civil discussion most of your are just complaining and dismissing his article immediately because you don’t like the subject matter. Even if you think it is poorly written your acting like the person he is talking about.

        NOT ONLY THAT Melee players are toxic as a whole. Remember when hungry box got a dead crab thrown at him because he was using a character that the purist didn’t like? Proving his point that only a fraction of the games characters get used.

        Shame on you people! Grow up and move on!

        • Did we read the same comments?

        • You obviously don’t know anything about that situation and what happened afterwards, Nearly every prominent melee figure and the community as a whole heavily vouched to get that guy banned and were incredibly outraged, they went on to give their support to Hungrybox afterwards.

          But go ahead and say “Melee players are toxic as a WHOLE” just because ONE guy made a mistake, let all the really nice people in the Melee community get labeled as toxic as well for something that was out of their control.

          The Ultimate community consists of MULTIPLE non black people saying the N-Word, people who’ve committed rape, and pedophiles but you don’t see me saying the Ultimate community as a whole is filled with those types of people. Although I doubt my words mean anything to the immature mind.

        • Ultimate players have done more worse shit than melee players. Are you dumb?

    • Make a poor critique that shows no understanding of subject matter. Receive flak for said ignorance. “Hope you guys realize you’re proving my point.”

      Imagine thinking that a shallow argument against something wouldn’t breed shallow arguments against you, but of course you’d have to throw away the stuff that is actually reasonable to fit your narrative.

    • You didn’t do any research on any of your points.

      All smash games ban most of their maps. Percentage wise ultimate probably has the lowest viable maps.

      Gamecube controllers arent the only thing allowed. Look at Hax$. Also no one manufactures anything made for gamecubes. So what else are you going to use if not self-made?

      Melee’s meta over the years has like 7 viable characters at worst. In 2019 its like 9 viable characters at the top level now.

      Melee was made for crts. HD tvs probably didnt even exist in 2001 and if they did it was rare as fuck. Of course other games nowadays use HD TVs. They were built for them.

      18 years is old for an esport but young for anything else that is competitive in life. Like any sport, any board game. Etc. why do we move on when we don’t have a true sequel? Melee to brawl is not a sequel. It was literally a different game. Brawl to smash4 was a sequel because they were fairly similar in mechanics, etc.

      I dont know any melee player that has not tried ultimate, nor have I heard of one

      At first you say melee players should move on. Then you retract a bit to act more neutral. You clearly have a huge bias with littl information.

      Good trollbait article. Bad in terms of everything else (if you were going for anything else that is). The lack of research is so bad. If you get paid to write articles you should find a new job asap rofl

    • I don’t even play melee but I respect every aspect of it. Playing and sticking with a game that people have loved for 18 years should be a positive not a negative, telling it’s fans to “move on” because of its age isn’t a valid argument point, if a person gets attached to an old car or house or any old material thing that holds sentimental value, being told to move on from it would hurt anyone’s feelings. Which explains a lot of the toxic comments which i do feel bad about. But any community has toxic people in it. At this point in time it’s impossoble not to run into toxic people when it comes to multiplayer games. But when strong opinions such as yours are voiced so publicly of course the most common response is going to be a toxic one, because the toxic responses are usually made by the people with the strongest opinions who would care enough to immediately cuss at your own. But that isn’t unique to melee, ultimate’s community is just as toxic, along with several other esport communities like overwatch, call of duty or CS. Toxicity is inevitable and should probably be expected when articles like this are written. I am acting as rationally as possible when i say that making generalizations about a community based on some toxic responses to an article that is guaranteed to receive flak for its content matter is an amazing way to make everyone see the toxic people within the community but miss a majority of the rest of its players and viewers who still believe you’re wrong but won’t comment on this article. If that was your goal to make melee look bad by saying something controversial and having the toxic players (who exist in every community not just melee) yell at you then you did an great job. But as an Ultimate player, I think that melee players should be allowed to play whatever game they wish, with whatever rules and equipment they wish because everyone has preferences and they should be respected not refuted.

      • ne veritas obliviscere on September 17, 2019 at 6:25 am said

        I am a Melee player. I love the game a lot, like a ridiculous amount, but I do love me some Ultimate. Sadly, I have no Switch but I really do like the game, I just want to take some time out of my sleep schedule to say thank you. I am usually not this toxic or defensive, but this really fuelled me. Coming from a neutral standpoint, this article completely destroyed my composure, as I was held in complete awe at the level of hypocrisy – layer after layer after layer. You really summed up my thoughts a little more nicely than I did. However, I will say this: it doesn’t matter which fan sees this: they will be mad. There is no person out there that loves this game that will not speak abusively or caustically about this article; if there are, color me surprised. There are really nice people out there who can be forced into using speech they would not dare use had they been conversing in real life.

        I also don’t know a single Melee player or someone who liked Melee in the past who has *played* played Ultimate (not just a few games) and has not liked it. Even my brother, who doesn’t usually take a liking to games like this said it was great. It greatly pains me to know that people really are extremist, whether it be against something, for something, or in neutrality. This article is a good example of that.

    • You attacked an entire community to get people to click on your 11th grade journalism assignment, and now that they’re here complaining you misrepresented them in the process of doing so, they’re proving your point?

      What *is* your point, exactly? Because while you tell everyone to move on from Melee, you also complain that Melee tells everyone to move on from anything that isn’t Melee. Meanwhile, the community itself is doing the opposite and encouraging ALL smash games to thrive, all while having its efforts ignored by poorly researched opinion pieces.

      Do the research, Luke. Don’t start a fire and complain when people come by because they smelled smoke. And try to learn from this experience instead of doubling down.

    • Maybe TheQuartering should do a video on you seeing as you behave EXACTLY as the pc sjw left that he likes to do so many videos on. You did a shitty fucking article, deal with it.

      What you couldve done was reading through all the reasonable and well argued comments and corrected your stance based on facts and all the shit you got wrong.

      But it is way easier to play the victim ZoeyQuinn style isnt it Luke?

      “youre just proving my point” smh you are a joke dude

    • ne veritas obliviscere on September 17, 2019 at 6:12 am said

      By the way, I hope you realize your impertinent comment is just proving my point. “This comment can’t stop me because I can’t read [with my brain]!”

      Representative Democracy – It’s time for Americans to Move On.
      It’s already been 223 years. Why would we need this outdated system that only some countries of the world don’t support? Socialism is newer, and we all now democracy is obviously chock full of bumbling idiots who support slavery, anyways.

      This isn’t an opinion, nor is it an article. It’s straight up unfiltered bias with ZERO logical or even factual basis. ***I’ll say it again: you have ZERO evidence OR factual information to support any of your bigoted conclusions.*** You whine about us merely existing and having fun without proper research and knowledge, which, if you had a brain, were all literally one Google search away, and you would be less of an ignorant douche. Instead you decided to pour toxic filth out of your mouth. You act as if we’re whiny and require “special accommodations”: CRTs are what makes sense – analog input to output. You act as if we force others to play Melee and worship it like God: we simply love the game we play and wish for others the same, but we usually respect those who don’t. You claim absurd statistics without providing specific examples because they would prove you wrong. In fact, we of the Smash community are humans, like the rest of you “intellectuals”! We like things we like and want others to enjoy with us, and if they don’t we respect them, but there are some of use that ruin that reputation, like you.

      I am disgusted at how journalism still hasn’t rid itself of the festering maggot that is yellow journalism. I am thankful the Smash communities will have nothing to do with you in the future, and I hope you disengage yourself from them as well. Go outside and enjoy yourself instead of being a toxic “journalist” online. It would do both parties good.

  17. Although I must say that I personally do not like Melee, this article is lacking too much knowledge to be a legitimate one. I can also understand why Melee players may be angered by the sudden dismissal of Melee during Evo; however, I do not think that they should be “outraged”. Melee is just an old game and that is why I believe that it wasn’t included at Evo.

    • No one was outraged. Extremely disappointed is a better word. This article uses shitty phrasing and has poor choice of words to fit a biased narrative.

      Worst thing in joirnalism is people who are too lazy to write accurately or people who use certain phrasing/wording to fit a biased narrative.

  18. Right as the article begins to dive into why Melee players should move on, the author begins to spread misinformation.

    The author states that the game has abused “glitches” that would’ve been patched out but fails to name them. This is likely referring to “wavedashing” which is a physics exploit that shows the physics engine is working as intended. The game creator Masahiro Sakurai even commented on wavedashing years later, saying it was doing during development but was left in intentionally. Most other glitches are banned from competitive play (freeze glitch, black hole) while rare glitches that you generally have to go out of your way to perform are kept– meaning you won’t ever see it in normal gameplay or a competitive environment.

    The next point the author made was about “most of the characters aren’t even used.” This is not true too. The top 9 players all use unique characters, and it was top 11 last year. That’s almost half the entire game cast. You see a little over half the cast in representation in the top 100 but almost 80-90 percent of characters in mid level.

    I stopped reading there because the credibility of the author is destroyed, so I assume this article is bait.

    This truly is Melee Hell.

    Meet Koopletics, my Bowser-locked ultimate Ironman.

  19. Years of research went into writing this article. LUL.

  20. Hot Dog Harold on September 10, 2019 at 2:41 am said

    What a fucking stupid article.

  21. Remember this post when you look back at all your past mistakes, including your “journalism” career.

  22. You are a fucking idiot. Get off my feed.

    • I was recommended this article in my Google feed and all I can say is that I’m extremely disappointed. I enjoy watching/playing both Melee and Ultimate and firmly believe they can coexist. Melee has a very strong grassroots community behind the scene that is the sole reason the game has been around for so long. People enjoy it because of its incredibly deep mechanics that allow for a plethora of movement options, flashy combos/strings, and unique interactions between players within each match. These mechanics allow every player a huge amount of creativity and a set of tools to develop their own unique play style. You however, have dismissed these core mechanics as mere glitches, that if released today, would be patched entirely. This shows how extremely little you know about the game and its competitive scene. Another community that holds on to older “glitched” games is the speedrunning community. Games like Super Mario 64 are beloved because of advanced movement options that aren’t available in newer titles. Would you recommend every Super Mario 64 speedrunner to drop their game and only speedrun the newest, more polished release as well? You also mention the lack of character variety at the top level. Which yes, in comparison to Ultimate, is very small. However, during this summer, a Pikachu player won a major tournament for the first time since the game’s release. There is also a Yoshi main who is considered top ten in the world and has been in many Top 8’s this throughout this year. All in all, this has been an exciting year to be a Melee fan and the game will continue to live so long as people still find it enjoyable. It is an even better time to be an Ultimate fan, with scheduled updates and new character releases on the horizon. You are very much limiting your perspective and forcing on a narrative by not knowing anything about the game you are speaking about. I hope you either learn from your mistakes and get educated, or give up on your journalism dreams altogether.

  23. menschmaschine5 on September 10, 2019 at 4:02 am said

    Another 2 bit gaming “journalist” who’s discovered that talking trash about games with dedicated fanbases is a good way to get clicks. It worked on me, I guess.

    Nothing to see here.

  24. This is hilariously bad journalism and as someone else pointed out you should be the ashamed for writing this and sharing this “news article” which happens to be your “personal” opinion. Your clearly an outsider who knows just enough to almost sound credible.

    Let’s talk facts since we see the “same 3-6 characters” Why didn’t you mention that 2019 melee has been the most electrifying that it’s ever been? Wizzrobe defeating hungrybox with fucking captain falcon multiple times. Falcon winning a major! Axe winning summit aka Pikachu winning a major. Not to mention other lesser known players upsetting the top players. You really can’t call these tournaments anymore.

    Sure let the newer smash games get their shine, doesn’t mean Ultimate isn’t fucking slow and boring. And just cause melee is old doesn’t mean it’s stale, in fact it’s actually continuing to get deeper. So even as a casual I can watch melee forever, I’ll move on when there’s a smash game with the depth of melee.

    Since it “abuses glitches” I wonder why these glitches are so useful and we’ll implemented that they actually improve gameplay? Must be pure luck and not intentional at all. Yup.

    Everyone always tests the new smash games to see of you can wavedash, pivot move like melee why? Cause Melee is the Pinnacle of smash gameplay period.

  25. This article read like a greatest hits album of all of the scrubby Reddit posts by people who only recently learned about the Smash scene but think they know everything about it after watching a few streams. You literally hit every freezing cold take:

    – “Don’t get me wrong, melees great, I grew up playing it. But…”
    – “Abusing glitches”
    – “Brawl was bad so not a lot of people played it” (Brawl had more entrants than Melee at many nationals in its heyday)
    – “PM was designed to be Melee 2.0”
    – “Melee players too snobby to use anything but CRTs”
    – “Melee players only don’t play Ultimate because it’s not Melee”
    – “I’m not saying they should stop playing Melee. I’m just saying it’s time to move on”

    I was actually laughing reading through all of this ignorance because I thought I was done seeing it regurgitated back in, like, 2o14. But here it still is. If you fancy yourself a game journalist, please learn how to do a damn interview before publishing something like this. Hell it doesn’t even have to be a Melee player. A veteran Ultimate/Smash4 player would have told you how wrong you are on like 90% of the points you try to make here.

  26. This is truly a terrible article on September 10, 2019 at 4:43 am said

    What a disaster of an article.

  27. You quite obviously have zero idea what you are talking about. This entire article is blatant misinformation taken from YouTube comment sections.

  28. “Hey guys, it’s time to move on from a game and community that you love unconditionally that there is no replacement for because.. Well, just because!”

    That’s this article. What a click-baity pointless waste of time.

  29. 1. No, most melee players don’t think melee is “simply the best smash game.” They claim to enjoy it the most, are often much better at melee than its counterparts, and sustain a grassroots scene that allows them to play the game they love.

    2. Melee’s current top ten players feature no less than 10 unique characters played at a high level in-tournament. “3-6” is a fabrication. A lie. No more, no less. Hell, most top players can play more than 3 characters at a high level!

    3. When melee is featured at an FGC-forward event, who do you think provides the setups? The CRTs? It’s not the FGC- it’s the melee community at large. No demands of “accommodation” have ever been made besides the community-wide request for fewer BO3 sets at EVO, a tournament which is traditionally shoddily run and competitively bankrupt.

    4. The melee scene is what makes the Ultimate scene possible. Our community leaders laid the groundwork for what a grassroots competitive community looks like. We built the streaming services, the tournament prestige, heck! We still host some of the largest Ultimate tournaments!

    5. You don’t know melee mechanics. Splitting hairs over what is and isn’t a glitch isn’t productive, but pretending like “Sakurai would’ve patched out wavedashing because it makes the game hard” is a good argument is even less so. If anything, it’s insulting to Sakurai to suggest he was unaware of the unlimited movement possibilities of melee (which make it beautiful and unique) before he released the game, especially given that he’s repeatedly said he was aware of them. The later smash titles put less emphasis on movement not in effort to “reduce glitches” but to, in Brawl’s case, limit the competitive potential of the game, and in Ultimate’s, to preserve competitive accessibility. It’s no secret that it takes a long time to become a serviceable melee player thanks to the technical demands, but Ultimate largely spares that learning curve.

  30. Everyone Alive on September 10, 2019 at 6:00 am said

    This article is fucking garbage

  31. Why would you write an article telling a scene not to exist? Bizarre and reflects poorly on the website

  32. “most of which involve abusing glitches that probably would have been patched out as soon as they were discovered”
    yeah right, lets ignore the fact that sakurai discovered wavedash during development but opted to keep it in the game

    https://smashboards.com/threads/dispute-ended-new-sakurai-intervew-wavedashing-was-intentional.162416/

  33. One thing you have to understand mate is there is no other game like Melee.
    You can point at the other games being diverse with characters and stages, but the speed and technique makes a very different game many aren’t going to move on from.

    You really really have to understand they aren’t the same game over and over. I prefer Melee over the rest of them because I find the game play more fun, which this series is all about. And no, I can’t wave-dash anymore.

    I get people telling me sometimes that I’m blinded by nostalgia, but that just shows they have no idea what they are talking about and that they haven’t bothered to even asked anyone why.
    Not outraged at all, but I wish you would’ve asked someone before hand.

  34. Dogshit article written to farm clicks, by an uninformed author. Sorry we actually enjoy our game enough to stick with it for more than 4 years.

  35. F*ck man at this point, as some one who goes to melee tournaments and enjoys playing the game with my friends I just wanna be left alone. Between the plethora of articles with the same message as this to the “years of research” and general shit we get from the ultimate community, I wish melee just went back to grass roots tournaments. I’m also tired of being called elites because I like melee more. I personally don’t care which one you like more and I’ve never talked shit to people that play 4/ ult but god damn if I say I like melee more in those groups than I get a wave of shit thrown my way.

  36. You have no idea what you are talking about, lol

  37. What a dumpster fire.

  38. Feels like I am reading something off of r/kappa

    Just let people play the game they like. There should never be anyone trying to take you down because you like something old. Pretty crazy reading something like this on a website that was made specifically so people could just read about games in peace. I guess its just an opinion piece, but its a bad one at that.

  39. You should have posted this tomorrow because it’s the 9/11 of gamer takes

  40. This is like the biggest Scrubquote ever.

  41. Two big things I really hated in the article.

    1) “lucky there are big melee tournaments”
    We are because other melee players, other people in this community, love this game so much to lose melee to host three day tournaments and fly top players out. And to break our backs setting up crts

    2) conflating melee and pm. Yes, the elevator pitch is brawl with melee mechanics. But it is it’s own game with it’s own community that is still playing to this day. The reason pm never got “big” is because Nintendo would not let it be stream. Patches are still being released to this day.

    The rest of the article was perfect, saw nothing wrong with it

  42. Here is the attention you wanted for that bad opinion

  43. The amount of engagement from this one, innocuous article…

    Someone kicked a hornet’s nest 😛

  44. People that say this stupid shit are the problem with communities. We coexist, stop trying to control people and get them to do what you think they should do. Youre nobody. We all do what we wanna do regardless of your stupid ass article. Cant believe this bullshit popped up on my phone.

  45. The Melee Community doesn’t demand that pro gaming communities bend over backwards to accommodate us, in fact far from it. Our scene has been grassroots since 2001, and any of our branching off into the major esports world is an extension of that and the people who laid the groundworks, even . If you’re subtweeting EVO by saying this, we got our game back on the lineup in the first place through pure campaign driven donation, and passion for a game we love, and then we STAYED there by being one of the most viewed games every Sunday, for years, consecutively. Acting like our whole community is bitching when we’ve been carrying ourselves off the hard work of a few incredible individuals dedicated to preserving this scene is frankly insulting, and ignorant.

    Looking at EVO 2019, we all kind of knew we wouldn’t be back with Ultimate on the horizon, and we accepted it. We knew we didn’t NEED EVO to keep our scene alive, so don’t paint the vocal minority of players as the entire scene making a stink of things when it was at most like, 12 people, none of them being major community figures.

    As for CRT’s, it is an integral part of the game, and most major melee tournaments are made up of a stash of CRT’s prepped by the TO’s and sponsors, as well as setups BROUGHT BY TOURNAMENT ENTRANTS. On the smaller level of local/regional tournaments, almost ALL setups are donated/borrowed from entrants.

    Saying Melee is boring to watch? I mean you’re entitled to your opinion but thats all it is. Looking at our view count every EVO and even at our super major sundays your point is quantifiably false. Unless thousands of people tune in to watch something boring.

    Even the scrubs who went 0-2 at their first tourney YESTERDAY are working hard to keep this scene alive so don’t talk down to us like you know, because everything you’ve written here clearly shows that you don’t.

    • Funny… Last time Melee and Ultimate were at the same venue Melee fans were getting very rude and loud and demanding Ultimate be ended in a draw cause it slightly went into Melee’s time… then when Melee did it the Melee fan boys said it was okay to do it. Melee forces TO’s to bend over backwards to let them run over time into other games.

      • Also Hey Hbox remember this? https://compete.kotaku.com/nintendo-doesnt-want-the-best-smash-bros-melee-player-1825933806 Reason why you didn’t get invited was you taunted at the time the head of Nintendo of America ON stage in front of millions of people and disrespect him.

        • He didnt get invited because they only invite the champion player of the tournament more than one time, nothing to do with reggie and hbox having a friendly feud that everyone loved, get your head out of your ass kid. Yeah there isnt any place that mentions that venue experience, why do you anti melee kids just let people love games, you´re a disgrace to the entire smash community, no wonder ultimate´s community on the internet is toxic, a bunch of keyboard 12 year old warriors who complain and make shit up about something thats “the rival” to their game

  46. I agree, I don’t have a horse in this race but found the article to be pretty balanced and interesting to read. The comments, however, exemplify much of the behavior you discuss in your writing. Some of them actually bring up some good points to counter your arguments but they can’t seem to help but be insulting and dismissive at the same time instead of having a civil discussion.
    Whatever. I enjoyed the read, man! This is the type of interesting gaming related stuff I’ve been missing from the other outlets.

    • We are incredibly offended by this article basically telling us that our game is dead and we need to move on
      There is legitimately no research done
      He clearly knows nothing.
      And the Crux of the article is to tell me to move on from the game that I have been joyfully playing most of my life
      The game that helped me through my darkest days and kept me alive is nothing that I’m going to just abandon

    • Someone who enjoys critical thought. on September 11, 2019 at 2:01 am said

      What about this article was balanced? It’s incredibly one sided and has denied all of the work so many people have put in to make this community what it is.

    • If someone posts lies to fit a narrative in an article that is meant to inform people, then they deserve the shit that they get. Especially if they are getting paid for it.

      that’s the reality of joirnalism. Dn’t trust news orgs/journalists/info online that isnt backed up by good sources and state 100% incorrect facts. It’s pretty much 100% incorrect lol. Like he couldnt even get one fact right.

      Some may beoffended but i am disgusted that this person was allowed to basically lie to tell a biased narrative because he didnt bother to do proper research on each point he made or because he has a personal vendetta against the community. Disgusting. Literally fake news. Read my comments above if you want to see me dissect every incorrect thing he said.

      What if I went and said “Ultimate was fun but Smash4 and Brawl were way better” and then spewed lies about Ultimate.

  47. You do not have a deep enough understanding of melee to write an article about it. Most of your supporting argument is demonstrably false. You are entitled to your opinion but please don’t back it up with fake news.

  48. There are no real arguments contained within this article for players to move on from Melee.

  49. Fuck this dumb ass punk kid. Eat shit pleb

  50. Sh*t article, nothing here was said that should make the melee scene “move on” this is just someone who doesn’t agree or respect the melee community and that’s fine. Instead of saying we’re just old people stuck in our ways and we need to move on, why not just say “hey I don’t like melee please come play ultimate with me” the two games can coexist without one needing to leave. Setting up a melee tournament is the same level of difficulty as any other tournament (I was a TO that ran melee and ULT tournaments for 3 years I think I have the credentials to say this) the CRT’s are a hassle argument is stupid. If you don’t like that melee is a game of intense skill and really high barrier to entry that’s okay, it doesn’t have to be for you. But for some people that’s a really cool thing and it’s why they enter, preforming combos and tech skill proves you have worked harder than the other person and some people live for that type of satisfaction.

    I have nothing against ULT, I played it competitively for ~3 months, but to say it is the game we should all move on to is stupid. Melee and ULT are two different games like most 2D fighting games are from one another (IE; Skullgirls vs unist, dbzf vs mvc, etc). How about we just let melee live, we will continue to take care of ourselves like we always have, and you new kids just keep running to the next shiney new game. Melee tournaments are run by us, paid for by us, sponsored by us, and will continue to be. We don’t need Evo anymore, we have so many majors that surpass the number of (melee) entrants and have a much better atmosphere than it. You can’t kill melee even with your hurtful words.

  51. Noah Ginsburg on September 10, 2019 at 9:19 pm said

    Look man, let people enjoy things.
    I fucking love melee, I also love ultimate. But brawl and 4 were both very sluggish in comparison to melee. That’s a big reason melee stuck around for so long. The two following iterations didn’t fullfil the same purpose.

    Ultimate is great in it’s own right, it still doesn’t quite have the same feel, but it’s definitely the closest. Honestly I think part of ultimates problem is actually firmware issues with the switch itself. (I feel like the GameCube controllers are more consistent with controls than the joycons or even the pro, given that my GameCube controllers don’t drift or log random button presses)

    But because of this, melee will probably be around for as long as people have the means to play it. Let people enjoy things (unless of course the thing is shitting on people for liking things)

  52. Aw man… This while debacle dissapoints me… I love every smash game, and with the exception of brawl I think all of them could be competitive. The difference is that a lot of people love melee. How is that bad? Then the comments come in calling this bad journalism. What authority do you have?
    Why is the melee community toxic? Because the love is so strong and the hate is so fierce. The same reason people can’t talk politics.

    Melee players are fun to watch, they show a level of mastery that few people ever attain! They have trained for years and become the most well known smash community of all. That deserves respect. 🙂

    Journalists are people, and don’t deserve hate for writing an opinion. Even if it’s filled with not fully correct information. It’s time for everyone to move on. A’ight? ^^

    • they do when they fail to do the simplest of research for what they are writing about

    • bad journalism is bad on September 11, 2019 at 7:12 pm said

      there’s having an opinion, and then there’s making stuff up / lying… as others have pointed out this article is full of falsehoods and fabrications, which IS bad journalism no matter how you spin it

  53. The hardest of baits

  54. NotAnUltimatePlayer on September 10, 2019 at 10:17 pm said

    I play melee everyday for the same reasons I play guitar every day. I like mastering highly technical movements with my hands. No other smash game feels as satisfying.

    P.S. Go eff yourself. Seriously..

  55. As Jeremy would say: “This is a hilariously bad take.” This article is akin to something games journos would publish to garner clicks. Melee’s grassroots competitive scene isn’t forcing themselves. Whats wrong with people enjoying their favorite game? Maybe it turned out to be a good thing I decided not to back this site on Subscribe Star after all.

  56. Well now we know Mr. Luke Archer has no idea what melee is all about. Good new for anyone looking to become a journalist. Retardation won’t be holding you back.

  57. Crucify the bumbling idiot that wrote this ill-informed garbage.

  58. You’re a hack as a journalist any fan of the competitive community would’ve done better than this
    I legitimately don’t know where to begin to break down how wrong you are
    90% of this information is just factually incorrect or fails to provide underlying reasons why it is they way.
    I hope you take a long look at your life and realize to not be so condescending to people who simply have an undying love to their game
    You fucking no nothing hack

    • Doctor Diddler on September 12, 2019 at 4:47 pm said

      >I legitimately don’t know where to begin to break down how wrong you are

      Well, saying this and providing no examples is a good way to start, unless you actually believe that in which case it’s a terrible way to start.

      >90% of this information is just factually incorrect or fails to provide underlying reasons why it is they way.

      Such as?

      >I hope you take a long look at your life and realize to not be so condescending to people who simply have an undying love to their game

      The most condescending thing he said was that there are members of the Melee community that act like entitled children. Hopping into the forums so you can say something to the effect of “FUCK YOU IDIOT” is proving his point.

      >You fucking no nothing hack

      I know correcting spelling is a sort of basic thing, but…

      know*

      Ironic, innit?

      • go do research. Melee players don’t have to explain themselves.

        What point you wanna talk about?

        1. Using crts? Firstly we have netplay which is 10x better than ultimate’s online play. Yeah i tried ultimate everyday and got bored after a month. (HD tvs didnt exist when melee was made. They’re compatible but its like adding buffer and lag to each input. Go try it yourself if you want to be educated on it.
        2. Using GC controllers? (Go ask nintendo for those new gc compatible controllers that they’re totally making in 2019. Or go make yourself one like Hax$ did as the only true alternative)
        3. Large percentage of maps banned? Well guess what… ultimate is worse if you look at % of maps banned/total number of maps. I dont even have to check our calculate i just know it’s worse. 6/30 maps or 12/70 maps. Do the math
        4. Melee players won’t move on. Because Sakurai didn’t make a true sequel for melee. Smash 4 and ultimate are true sequels to brawl. Melee is a true sequel to smash64. But melee – brawl is where they literally made a completely different game.
        5. I can go on and on just lmk if you want me to talk about the garbage on this post thanks.

        Sincerely,
        A couple mins of research

  59. Imagine writing and posting this article completely unironically lmaooooo

  60. The headline sounds like something you’d hear from an SJW news outlet

  61. Love melee and love wavedashing teleporting mewtew. Pissed my brother off so much with him getting confused.

  62. I certainly believe Melee players should be able to continue enjoying a game they love… I mean, people are still playing the original Pac-Man and the Donkey Kong. It would be silly to ask them to stop. But the people complaining about the article are missing a major point it brings up: Melee players have garnered a reputation for being assholes.

    I remember reading articles about Melee players booing at the mere mention of other Smash games at fighting game tournaments. I’ve heard stories of elitism from then when interacting with people who dare to enjoy Smash Bros. Brawl or WiiU. I’ve seen them try to play newer Smash games but then throw FITS when somebody turns items on or doesn’t have the controller they like.

    I’ve convinced myself these people are a loud vocal minority in the Melee community, but right now it feels like that vocal minority is right here kicking at screaming at an article that did no harm and merely brought up some food for thought.

  63. DELET

  64. I never considered smash a real fighting game. It was perfect for parties but when you wanted to see who the best fighter was among your friends it was street fighter, mortal Kombat, tekken, etc.

    • melee is actually a really well designed game. There are guaranteed set ups, combos, pressure, wake up game, corner control. It’s just displayed in a pseudo 3d environment. But the base engine is really just a super in depth fighter through and through. They give a lot of control to the player being comboed so every hit is kind of like a mix up in a way, but at specific ranges and in melees case percentages there are combos. It’s just a little more than pressing buttons at specific intervals because each hit changes what you need to do next. If none of this makes sense idk what game you were playing.

  65. The salt is real, I’m sorry for the writer for getting so much hate for talking sensibly and giving an opinion that some people seem to consider an attack.

    • It’s not an opinion backed up by lies…. it’s called dirry joirnalism.

      If this guy wants a job in journalism he better read every hate comment in this article before he fucks up his career.

  66. Great article, as a Brood War fan you have to just let go when a better replacement is found.

    Smash Ultimate’s viewer experience is a million times better.

  67. Ah, so this is the article Jack mentioned.

    Hello folks, glad to see this site has grown so much since Jeremy got money out of schmucks like me to start this.

    I see a lot of people giving reasoned counter arguments to this opinion piece. Awesome 👍.

    Some of y’all kinda went nuts, though. Let me remind you that this was an opinion piece and the points he outlines show how much games have evolved since Melee launched.

    You can disagree with him and that’s fine. In fact, civil disagreement is a cornerstone of EG and why I chose to be a founder. But when you resort to insults and/or threats to boycott over an article clearly labeled opinion (an issue with games urinalism) uttered one you dis

    • Oops hit post accidentally. Where was I?

      When that opinion is one you disapprove of, turning into rage beasts just proves the urinalists’ #gamergate arguments true.

      Let’s keep it civil so we always have a great place free of the PC culture, yeah?

      • True, opinions are opinions, but the article states things in a light and manner in which it misleads the reader into thinking that the things being stated are true or facts, when in reality it is not. Some “opinions and supporting evidence” are “fake facts or reasonings” that are simply not researched or actually understood by the author. This sets off a lot of people who know better because they feel attacked by the tones and misunderstood details backing this opinion in the article.
        I was not even aware of this article until I saw a bunch of my students getting very angry towards this article and author, and I felt that you should know we are all entitled to an opinion, but if your opinion invalidates others while you dont know enough to validate your ideas, don’t post it without having someone sort of expert check your facts. Otherwise expect alot of negative feedback. 🤷‍♂️

      • At least 2 things are WRONG. It’s not opinion if it’s just WRONG.

        “Yeah I don’t believe in Gravity.” “In my opinion the president before Trump wasn’t Obama.”

        You realise how pathetically stupid it is to say things which are WRONG and hide behind “oh it’s an opinion omg guys stop being toxic!!!11”

        1 – b0xx controllers are used competitively. If you had done any research at all, you would know hax$, a fairly top-level competitor, developed significant hand problems due to the gamecube controller after switching to fox. The ergonomics of the controller and the tech-skill required was too much for his hands, and he had to develop an alternative. He researched thoroughly the flaws of the gamecube controller, worked with a hand specialist doctor, and developed the b0xx controller. This allows for frame perfect inputs while not sacrificing the players hands. He uses this in tournament setting (not just locals, but majors too).

        2 – 3-6 characters is wrong. You’re just wrong. It’s not opinion, if you say incorrect stuff and hide behind opinion. Look at all the supermajors, and which characters placed in top 20. The range is more like 8-12 viable characters. Not a huge difference, but you are wrong.

    • Michael Rubino on September 13, 2019 at 11:18 am said

      Type text here… Yeah but his opinions are very ill-informed. He is quite stupid when it comes to competitive Melee tbh

  68. I mean I understand why some people are upset, but you gotta read the article in full first.
    I do agree with some of the points the writer wrote in there. Sometimes you gotta move on and improve from the past.

  69. I’ve never been into smash, but i personally feel like fans of melee should get a shot at ultimate. I don’t know if there is a better smash but i’m sure that it’s not the same experience and liking one should’nt keep you from liking the other. Who knows, maybe they’ll learn to prefer ultimate

    • I’m sorry my guy but the games are completely different, the reason people love melee is because of the complicated but skill rewarding mechanics. And I don’t even play melee, I was too young to grow up with the game. I’m an ultimate player with a massive respect for the game and it’s community for sticking to it through everything.

  70. Someone should throw a crab at this guy…

  71. You are of course entitled to your opinions but so much information you try to pass off as “facts” are completely innacurate. A terrible article and a joke to read.

  72. Luke Archer [Not the Author] on September 13, 2019 at 1:38 am said

    You guys really need to shut hell up

  73. Jeremy Samuel Sheer on September 13, 2019 at 2:52 am said

    Type text here…First of all Telling melee players to move is like telling nintendo to stop re releasing games LET PEOPLE HAVE FUN. also the Smash community is the most TOXIC community in all of gaming. This guy is an idiot because he is telling people to stop having fun. I also dont like that Melee players almost act worse than sports fans or racist! like “ItS OuR GaMe!”

    NO ITS NOT its Sakurais.

    I love ultimate its the best version of smash yet But Melee Was the game I started Maining Jigglypuff Let people have fun ! this luke guy probably is regretting this article.

  74. I am an ultimate player, I was too young to fall in love with melee so my love for the series came with Brawl. Once I learned about the existence of the competitive smash scene I noticed that melee was still there and I didn’t know why since the game was so old. So I watched the grand finals of evo on 2017 for melee and I was in awe of the incredible skill and dedication it takes to devote yourself to a game that some people consider obsolete. While I’m no professional at melee and play ultimate right now, I have a massive respect for everyone who still sticks to and loves melee for what it is because it is a fantastic game and I really wish that I was just a little older and played melee growing up because I would’ve stayed with the game if I had and I would still be fighting for it’s life.

    • I am continuing my comment because I left out a very important point that I need to make. People with strong opinions exist everywhere, within every community of every game. Claiming that the vocal people of a community are how everyone in the community acts is a terrible generalization to make. The reason people believe this is because it’s the vocal people with strong opinions who are always first to attack an opposing one. And it’s like that all over every community. But every community has a majority of its fans who won’t post comments on articles like this because their opinion isn’t strong enough to cuss or fight back, there are handfuls of hardcore melee fans who have responded to this article who will defend melee to the death, but they aren’t the majority of the community. The majority is made up of people who just want to play their favorite competitive game, which is why there are thousands of remaining melee players. Only a handful respond irrationally, but every community has those people, but it is just to fight back when something you love is being threatened. So let those who love melee play melee.

  75. my opinion: its time for Luke Archer’s employer to move on. He’s clearly plagiarizing copy-pastas and hoping his boss won’t notice. Not a good look for Exclusively Games

  76. No ITEMS! Fox ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION!

  77. melee is far from being solved, guy doesnt know what hes talking about. and the melee communtiy couldnt give a shit about the fgc.

  78. dumbass

  79. Whoever wrote this sucks at melee and is mad that his Kirby is bottom tier

  80. Hello Luke. You wanted comments and clicks, here they are. Simple process really:

    1 – Find a community that is passionate.
    2 – Write an article with incorrect statements that involves that community.
    3 – Induce a mixture of rage and people fact-checking your statements.
    4 – Get clicks.

    I’m sure you’ve read the comments but I must point out two things you said which are literally wrong.

    1 – b0xx controllers are used competitively. If you had done any research at all, you would know hax$, a fairly top-level competitor, developed significant hand problems due to the gamecube controller after switching to fox. The ergonomics of the controller and the tech-skill required was too much for his hands, and he had to develop an alternative. He researched thoroughly the flaws of the gamecube controller, worked with a hand specialist doctor, and developed the b0xx controller. This allows for frame perfect inputs while not sacrificing the players hands. He uses this in tournament setting (not just locals, but majors too).

    2 – 3-6 characters is wrong. You’re just wrong. It’s not opinion, if you say incorrect stuff and hide behind opinion. Look at all the supermajors, and which characters placed in top 20. The range is more like 8-12 viable characters. Not a huge difference, but you are wrong.

  81. The only thing that can kill Melee is a Melee-clone that is –better– than Melee itself. Eventually it will happen; someone will make a really simple to reprogram platform fighter game, import Melee’s graphics into it, and tweak the engine until it spits out a game that plays nearly exactly like Melee.

    And then people will add mechanics that make the game more competitive than Melee (ledge grab limits!), and add in built-in online matches and automatic ranking, along with being open-source and compatible on multiple platforms (can recompile it for the Wii or play on a Macbook), and you will see the entire Melee community gravitate to it.

    My own personal vision for the future of competitive Melee: someone finally gets the Philip AI bot working really well, get customs top-level play AIs for all match-ups. AI plays better than any human players, and are allowed to enter some tournaments (mixed human-bot tournaments).

    Eventually, due to the dominance of the bots, a new type of match is born: the 2 vs 1 against the AI. A bot that plays nearly perfectly can definitely beat any human opponent, but could the best AI in the world beat –two– of the best human players, at the same time? My guess is yes, but what if you reprogrammed the game so wombo-combos won’t work on it?

    Melee is single-handedly the best platform fighter ever made, but it will not be the last, and it will not be the greatest forever. The true successor to Melee has yet to be born, and it won’t be created by Nintendo.

  82. Why are people still playing Melee?

    One single reason imho.

    Melee is fast. Not just fast, but FAST. Way faster than any other Smash game out there.

  83. mods where is my comment?
    It contained no swear words, hate speech etc.
    You deleted it because it exposes your narrative. What a joke

  84. What a terrible fucking opinion article. You’ve mindlessly regurgitated idiotic talking points to shit on people playing their favorite game just to deliver some hamfisted advertisement for Ultimate as if people simply haven’t tried it and found its flaws leaving a sour taste. Not to mention how many times you contradict yourself in the course of five paragraphs. This backwater website must be desperate for work if they’ve given you a platform for shit pieces like this.

  85. I don’t mean to be rude, but this article sucks.

  86. I don’t even play Melee, and I prefer Ultimate myself, but this is a pointless article. It’s like saying “It’s Time for USF4 Players to Move On” when some players prefer Ultra Street Fighter 4 over Street Fighter V. Some players prefer Melee, because it’s fast-paced, and it’s still fun to play, while others prefer Ultimate, because they like to play characters and stages that were not present in Melee. Both Melee and Ultimate are great games in their own way. Let Melee players enjoy Melee, and let Ultimate players enjoy Ultimate.

  87. He opened with “what’s up fellow gamers! I’m just like you!” the same argument that hack journalists use in their articles that The Quartering points out in many videos specifically the one about cuphead’s difficulty IIRC. Just because he says he loves it doesn’t mean he’s a part of the scene, I’d love to hear what the last local or major he attended if he really is. EVO got announced and melee wasn’t in it, melee players got taunted in ever twitch chat that with “melee is dead” spam even though many melee players also play ultimate, including our 5 Gods. We got the fuck over it and in fact our scene is even stronger than ever the only tournaments we expect to have melee at and demand melee at is smash tournaments, no one talks about evo anymore. The article is tone deaf because he’s looking at this from the outside of the glass, a lot of melee players love ultimate, some ultimate players tried melee and love it. The reason this article is trash is Sakurai finally bridged a gap with ultimate where melee and sm4sh players were finally coming together and all this article does is serve to expand that gap.

  88. You are fucking retarded. Never write an article again please or I will come to your house and break your fucking hands.

  89. I think you should have just gone for the “the melee community is being too demanding for a game that old”. That’s totally valid.

    Mixing it in with subjective criteria for when you should or shouldn’t move on from a game isn’t going to convince anyone and just muddies the former point.

    There are some amazing and iconic games with eccentric communities and respectable followings that have come and gone from EVO over the years. Hell, it’s called “Evolution”. It’s never been a tourney for niches and purists; new games and fgc scenes should get their shot.

    Melee’s revival and run at EVO is already aqpretty exceptional, and a testament to how remarkable that game has demonstrated itself to be. Most other communities that are less insular from the FGC as a whole would probably step down more gracefully at this point.

    I really wish the article had focused more on that angle, though really this was already pretty thoroughly discussed when it was first announced Melee wouldn’t be at EVO.

    Yes, Melee fans are weird and demanding – that’s well known and people have already put a lot of time and effort into breaking down and discussing the circumstances behind that. It’s gone on for years now (woth varying degrees of structured discourse and professionalism) – you’re not gonna solve it all in a short article.

    But again, what you can and probably should have addressed was how the vocal elements of the Melee community crossed the line from “weird and demanding” to outright entitled and disrespectful in theirnresponse to the EVO ruling. You could go into historical precedent for the event and the respective philosophies regarding community development held by the groups involved. There’s a lot of history and context to both the FGC and Smash communities that could be explored here.

    But instead you just covered surface level “wow, did you know Melee players are weird agressive purists? They should just stop doing that”.

    It’s what I’d expect from someone who just found out the Melee community still exists and doesn’t care enough not to address it in the most dismissive way possible. It comes across as being aimed towards Ultimate who are similarly disinterested in these old fanatic weirdos, but in doing so you distance them not only from the reality of the Melee community and its history, but that of the FGCs they are at odds with as well. And ultimately this sort of reductive and sensational rhetoric is the sort of thing that can contribute to a community being as insular as Melee’s.

    The best way to criticize Melee’s proponents is to make an effort to genuinely understand them. But more importantly doing so also allows the burgeoning SSBU community to learn from their missteps. Ideally they can have a greater understanding and appreciation for the communities that made both competitive Smash and EVO what they are today, and improve relations if not outright bridge the gap between the two going forward.

    • *Meant to say: “aimed towards Ultimate players”

      Also wow most of these replies are toxic AF.

      You do have my sympathies. This is the double edged sword of going for the attention grabbing but sweepingly reductive title/premise. Good for clicks, but if you don’t spin it into something more nuanced or insightful by the end, you’re gonna get backlash for it.

      And it probably doesn’t help that this article is at least a couple months past being timely. At this point the die hard fanatics who you’re writing off are probably going to be the only one’s who bothered to read what you had to say.

  90. no… its not time to move on…

    any anything, its time to go BACK and PLAY Melee with friends and see WHY this game is so amazing and stands the test of time.

    yes, CRTs are old, yes, 6 out of 25 characters being good sucks, but this game is amazing, and is worth playing a modern hack for (20XX, project sippi, UCF, SD Remix) to make the game a bit more enjoyable and seeing why its amazing…

    Cause Ultimate can piss one off at times… and new smash is great, but Melee and PM are why this smash series is so over-the-top freaking amazing and the only game one who is older would want to spend time over

  91. Playing Melee is unlike any other fighting game. The level of control granted is simply unmatched. The responsiveness of the game to your inputs is also second to none. This is what makes you feel like you are in the game; like the character is just an extension of yourself. Melee is the matrix; it’s a playground with infinite possibilities. The game is what you make of it.

    Ultimate is laggy. The amount of input latency in local play is enough to divorce you from any meaningful connection to your character. Instead it feels jerky, unwieldy, and uninteresting. There are no more stylish play options; all moves have one set purpose with no need for creativity.

    If you want a bland “competitive” experience which rewards the person who gets hit less, maybe Ultimate is for you. But if you want a game with deep mechanics that can be played for decades (with no updates) and rewards knowledge, execution, and creativity, there’s really nothing better than Melee.

  92. The most impressive part of this article is the amount of typos/errors. I think I’m going to throw my hat into the arena of “journalist”. Seems it’s free money as long as you know how to spell.

  93. I Agree entirely with this article!!!

    I need to say tho, melee was my first competitive smash and i loved PM, but it appears that Sm4sh got me for that well executed ZSS, as i just happen to abandoned in favor of my melee main (Link), cloud didn’t changed too much for me and ZSS is still ok i guess but i absolutely loved her in Sm4sh, SSBU is destined to be the last game in the series and the best as well!!!

    I really love it and even though Brawl adventure mode was even better than ultimate, lets face it, no one is here for the single player mode…

    Overall… This game is awesome, i just with my Link can detonate the bomb when ever i want to, even if my opponent is holding the damn thing…

  94. “Stop playing the game you like, instead play the game you don’t like that much because fuck you”.

    Yeah, no thanks.

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